Inspector507
Super Member
Yes,
I think a GFCI is needed. Wouldn't hurt to "bond" the gen-set frame to the lift as well.
I think a GFCI is needed. Wouldn't hurt to "bond" the gen-set frame to the lift as well.
I used my lift for the first time
- Thread starter Spencer
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JRP
Platinum Member
OSHA and the NEC requires generator grounding, and let me tell you a story about grounding:
I was supervising the building a fishing pier on the lower Colorado river four miles from the Gulf in semi-salt water . A crew was working from an aluminum flat bottom boat. The generator was on land, a big extension cord drapped along a teather rope to the boat. As the worker was boring a 1" hole with a big drill when the extension cord started to slip into the salt water and pulled the connecto and cord from the power tool into the water also. I knew there was a problem because the generator sound changed and there was hollering from some of the workers.
The generator did have a ground lug for attaching a ground rod. The geneator now has a ground rod, a 5' piece of copper clad 1/2" ground rod with a gurney and wire attached. The ground rod has a slide hammer handle on it so it requires no hammer or tools to install. It helps to pour a cup of water in the hole once it is about 8" deep. Makes the rod go in real easy- about a minute.
My honda generator has a built in GFI that protects all outlets. The hollering that morning was - "I need a towel to wipe off this cord, and In a few minutes I need you to reset the GFI." The story sure made me glad I bought a quality generator, and that also took the time to install a ground rod on that morning, before the cord dropped into the water.
I was supervising the building a fishing pier on the lower Colorado river four miles from the Gulf in semi-salt water . A crew was working from an aluminum flat bottom boat. The generator was on land, a big extension cord drapped along a teather rope to the boat. As the worker was boring a 1" hole with a big drill when the extension cord started to slip into the salt water and pulled the connecto and cord from the power tool into the water also. I knew there was a problem because the generator sound changed and there was hollering from some of the workers.
The generator did have a ground lug for attaching a ground rod. The geneator now has a ground rod, a 5' piece of copper clad 1/2" ground rod with a gurney and wire attached. The ground rod has a slide hammer handle on it so it requires no hammer or tools to install. It helps to pour a cup of water in the hole once it is about 8" deep. Makes the rod go in real easy- about a minute.
My honda generator has a built in GFI that protects all outlets. The hollering that morning was - "I need a towel to wipe off this cord, and In a few minutes I need you to reset the GFI." The story sure made me glad I bought a quality generator, and that also took the time to install a ground rod on that morning, before the cord dropped into the water.
Inspector507
Super Member
Jim,
Sorry, but I have to respond.........The NEC does not require grounding of a portable generator. Might want to look at Article 250 under Portable and vehicle mounted generators.
Now, if you feel the need to ground it, at least do it with an 8' ground rod, a 5 footer does nothing. Besides a ground rod does not ground an apliance, generator or anything else. It just gives lightning a place to dissipate. The actual ground is coming from the power source. Since the gen-set has no reference to ground/earth, a ground rod will not do much good I'm afraid.
Not flaming.........just adding my 2 cents worth.
Jerry
Sorry, but I have to respond.........The NEC does not require grounding of a portable generator. Might want to look at Article 250 under Portable and vehicle mounted generators.
Now, if you feel the need to ground it, at least do it with an 8' ground rod, a 5 footer does nothing. Besides a ground rod does not ground an apliance, generator or anything else. It just gives lightning a place to dissipate. The actual ground is coming from the power source. Since the gen-set has no reference to ground/earth, a ground rod will not do much good I'm afraid.
Not flaming.........just adding my 2 cents worth.
Jerry
pajoube
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Inspector507
Sure appreciate your comments and advice. As I will also be using my generator from a high lift device are you saying that using a GFI receptacle will be all that is necessary? Sure don't want to make a mistake.
PJ
Sure appreciate your comments and advice. As I will also be using my generator from a high lift device are you saying that using a GFI receptacle will be all that is necessary? Sure don't want to make a mistake.
PJ
Inspector507
Super Member
PJ,
A GFCI senses the unbalanced current between the "hot" and "neutral". If there is more flowing through the "hot", then it will kick out. It has sensed there may be a fault to ground more or less.
The gen-set needs to be "bonded" to the lift frame if conductive.
Jerry
A GFCI senses the unbalanced current between the "hot" and "neutral". If there is more flowing through the "hot", then it will kick out. It has sensed there may be a fault to ground more or less.
The gen-set needs to be "bonded" to the lift frame if conductive.
Jerry
mrcaptainbob
Platinum Member
Thanks for the enlightenment, Inspector. My Coleman 5500W has two cautions: item '7' states: Units should not be operated or stored in wet or damp conditions or on highly conductive locations such as metal decking and steel work. (Then in bold letters): Always use rubber gloves and boots, and a ground fault current interrupter if these conditions may be present during use.
The other note is to ground the unit by connecting a length of heavy gauge wire between the generator lug and an external ground source, such as a water pipe or copper rod driven into the ground.
I note they don't suggest what length of ground would be appropriate. I also note that they suggest the use of gfci. Too bad it's not a mandatory feature on all generators to have gfci. If there's any place that needs it 100% of the time, it certainly is this. Thanks again for pointing these out. It is now one of this winter's projects to add gfci's to my units.
The other note is to ground the unit by connecting a length of heavy gauge wire between the generator lug and an external ground source, such as a water pipe or copper rod driven into the ground.
I note they don't suggest what length of ground would be appropriate. I also note that they suggest the use of gfci. Too bad it's not a mandatory feature on all generators to have gfci. If there's any place that needs it 100% of the time, it certainly is this. Thanks again for pointing these out. It is now one of this winter's projects to add gfci's to my units.
erich
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Thanks for the very interesting discussion on grounding vs bonding. I am a mechanical engineer in the construction industry and I readily admit that there are two things in the world that confuse me the most. One of them is electricity. Fortunately if I think I can get into trouble I can rely on the electrical engineers and electricians. As for that other thing that confuses me, I don't think I'll ever figure how to stay out of trouble.
MarkV
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I know Inspector507 knows his stuff so I wonder if the ground lugs on many portable generators are for protection against lighting strikes. It sure isn't unheard of for a generator to be used during a storm.
MarkV
MarkV