Grading Idiot's or Dummy's guide to surveying & grading.

Reg · Apr 22, 2006

Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

I know it can't all be learned from a few pages, but I'm looking for the "elements" of surveying, defining grade, working to grade stakes, etc.

For example, if I had a gently sloping area that a family member wanted made flat for a tennis court.
OK, so I'd have to rip up a bunch of dirt on the high side and move it to the low side - simple in principle, but how do I lay it out, work to the layout etc ?
Any couple or three hundred page books someone can recommend to get me started ?
Better still something on-line, like the introduction to hydraulics course.
BTW, I don't want to splurge a whole bunch of money on lasers, so what were the pre-laser days methods ?

Egon · Apr 22, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

Okay - cheap - easy - enjoyable and does work! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Take a nice clear mug that has some concentric circles on it. Fill it with one of your favorite foamy beverages. Find a point downhill of where you are working. Quaff some of the beverage so the level is right on one of the concentric circles. Level the mug using the circle and liquid level. Look over the top of the mug for your level alignment.

There are times it's difficult to get the liquid level in the mug just right so bring a goodly supply liquid.

I have used this method to level an area. On later checking with proper instruments found it was level.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bluecheck546 · Apr 22, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

Egon, 12 pack will do? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I like that method. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Pooh_Bear · Apr 22, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

Free online Hydraulics Course.

http://64.78.42.182/free-ed/MechTech/hydraulics01/default.asp

Pre Laser surveying instruments?

George Washington was a surveyor.
He used a flat piece of wood about 16x16 inches.
On two opposite sides were two identical sets of crosshairs.
The board was mounted on a tripod and you leveled it.
The board could rotate on the tripod but remain level.
Just level the board and use it like any other surveyor scope.
Line the crosshairs up to shoot a line.
You will also need a surveyer rod. A big ruler is what it amounts to.
A helper holds the ruler and you look thru the scope to read the measurement.

You want to level an area?
Think of the plane swept by the sights of the scope as it rotates on the tripod.
Just measure down to the ground from that plane to get distance.
More distance means a low spot. Less means a high spot.

To get more info about this you mite try searching out info about
laying out a house foundation using a transit level.
You can pick up a transit tool for cheap up to expensive.
Go for the self leveling type. Leveling one manually can be pain to a newbie.

Pooh Bear

ns_in_tex · Apr 22, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

In the early 1950's I worked for my granddad building houses.
He took a 5 gal bucket, turned it upside down & set a carpenters level on it. Worked the bucket into the ground until it was level in all directions. Then he layed a nail on each end of the level and sighted the points to shoot the grade.

Glenn9643 · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

I had a drainage ditch to dig a few years ago, about 800 feet. I used string and a line-level, starting at the high end of the ditch, and drove a stake about every fifty feet keeping the top of each stake level with the previous one. This method isn't as exact as using a transit, but it's close. After all of your grade stakes are in place you can determine how much soil must be moved.

gordon21 · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

If you go around corners or have other view obstructions, remember that water seeks its own level. Using a hose with equal size clear sight tubes at each end will show you the same exact elevation at each end. Just make sure the hose is completely filled with water and has no pockets of air. This method is very accurate and cheap to set up for a limited one time project if you already have some hose. $10 or less and you are ready to go.

Builder · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

You can rent a transit and a tripod from a rental center for a day, set all your stakes and then start diggin.

What I do is remove the obvious high dirt with my loader until I'm roughly close to where I want to be, then set up the transit and start pounding the stakes in. That way your stakes will all show above ground or you won't have to use real tall stakes or stakes down in a hole.

I don't know the dimensions for a tennis court, but if you can establish where one corner goes, just use the "3-4-5" triangulation principal to get it all squared-up (works for rectangle, too). You can check how "square" she is by pulling diagonals from each corner in an "X" across the tennis court.

If you're doing a tennis court, make sure you're compacting your fill to the specs needed for one.

I'm just throwing some basics at you that I use for digging house & addition foundations.

Dmace · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

If your trying to level an area with a moderate slope, just grab a few gradestakes, spool of string, and a string level (All can be picked up at your local hardware store for a couple of bucks).

Put the gradestakes in the corners of your area to be leveled. Tie the string on the gradestake that is closest to the desired grade (tie string at grade level) and run string to all the other gradestakes. Placing the line level on the string half-way between gradestakes and making sure the string stays level. This will show you where the grade needs to be raised or lowered.

Here is a picture of a typical line level that I am talking about.

Good Luck!

turnkey4099 · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

( If you go around corners or have other view obstructions, remember that water seeks its own level. Using a hose with equal size clear sight tubes at each end will show you the same exact elevation at each end. Just make sure the hose is completely filled with water and has no pockets of air. This method is very accurate and cheap to set up for a limited one time project if you already have some hose. $10 or less and you are ready to go. )

That is the way I would do it.

One additional warning: Make sure that the hose is all in the shade or all in the sun. If the temp varies on one end from the other, that will also throw off the level.
A water level is nice as it can be a one-man operation. Others almost require two.

Set a master stake up in the center of your planned levelingoperation, set other grade stakes wherever you need them.

Put two nails in each stake spaced so the tubing is a slip fit.

Mark the master stake - Doesn't matter how high but be sure it is high enough that the level at the highest stake will fall at a convenient level - you don't want it down near the ground.

Fill hose, put it between the master and a grade, pull up or push down the tube at the master until the water level is on your mark. Now go to the grade stake and mark it at the water level. Repeat as necessary.

Be sure not to spill any water from the hose/tube when moving from one stake to another.

Harry K

flusher · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

Use a water level and 24" surveyors stakes. Simple to use and cheap.
I have the one made by Zircon. Costs about $25 at Home Depot, etc.
One man operation, accurate to about 1/2 inch over the area the size of a tennis court.

gordon21 · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

I forgot to mention that in my original post. Others pointed it out. The water level method is a one man method. Every other type of measuring requires two people to either hold something or be there. This may or may not be a factor for you. If you don't have a helper, then renting a transit or other items is a moot point.

zeuspaul · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

First you need to balance the cuts and the fills. You can use one of the methods mentioned to make the measurements. The string and string level will work.

Set a refernce grade stake outside the area you want to work. Then set another one outside the area you want to grade at the other end and at the same elevation as the first one. You can use the string level to do this. There will be a lot of sag in the string even if it is taught. Pull the string taught and place the string level in the center so the sag won't affect the measurement.

You may want to set three *lines* or pairs of stakes.

Now make some grade checking sticks. Use a four foot piece of lath or something similar. Nail a 12 in +/-cross piece towards the top (down about 9 in from the top) The stick will look like a cross. Make two of these exactly the same.

Make a third stick that's just a stick with two rulers on the top. The numbers start at zero and zero is the same height as the top of the cross piece on the crosses. One set of numbers increases upwards and the other downwards. You can draw the marks on the stick with a felt tip marker.

You need three people to make the measurements. One guy holds a cross on one of the grade stakes. Another is somewhere between the two grade stakes with the non-cross stick. The third is with a cross on the opposite grade stake. One of the guys with the cross sights the other cross over the top of his cross and reads the stick in the middle to see if and how much the grade is off.

Assume the top of the grade stakes to be elevation ten. Determine the existing grade at numerous locations in an equally spaced grid...every ten or twenty feet in each direction...depends on how much the grade varies.

Average all of the numbers and that is the value for the final grade...a balanced cut and fill so you won't have to bring in or remove dirt.

Set a bunch of grade stakes to the final grade using the grade sticks and start moving dirt.

Zeuspaul

Builder · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

( I forgot to mention that in my original post. Others pointed it out. The water level method is a one man method. Every other type of measuring requires two people to either hold something or be there. This may or may not be a factor for you. If you don't have a helper, then renting a transit or other items is a moot point. )

Actually, you can survey all day long with a transit by yourself. All you have to do is build a story pole. You get a nice straight, smooth 2x4 and lay a tape measure on it marking one inch increments from bottom to top. Then saw 3/4" off the bottom. Then nail a 2' x 2' piece of 3/4" plywood to the bottom so it can stand up on its' own.

I've laid out entire roads & homes this way for years.

Now I also use a laser transit (can be rented cheaply) with a story rod & sensor. That makes it really easy for one man to do.

gordon21 · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

That's a good method for a rural area. I never considered that. Here in Florida, most of the benchmarks are in the centers of busy highways and doing it by yourself would be a task. By the time you could go from the transit to the self supporting pole, it would have been knocked over by traffic. Surveyors here wear orange vests and put numerous traffic cones around themselves and it is still a dangerous occupation. And of course that assumes the transit is still there when you get to the pole. A modern GPS transit left unattended probably has a life span of about 43 seconds in south Florida.

Builder · Apr 23, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

Well of course. I was referring to laying out sites for building private homes, foundations, subdivision roads, swimming pools, tennis courts, etc..

Never said anything about a transit & story pole being able to lay out the next 8 lane interstate highway. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Neither did the thread starter. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dubba · Apr 24, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

( A modern GPS transit left unattended probably has a life span of about 43 seconds in south Florida. )

Sounds like you might need to spend a few hours down at the local range with your 30-06 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

davidseaquist · Apr 24, 2006

Re: Idiot\'s or Dummy\'s guide to surveying & grading.

I sure like your beer story, my beverage of choice ! water level in a glass. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif David.