Idle or Off

[jgh]

20050911

In case someone is interested, here is what my Ford Truck dealer told me about my 2005 F-350 diesel: Don't do extended idle (not exactly defined but more than a few minutes) due to new engine equipment (the exhaust DOES smell different on this truck) that will let soot, etc, build up during extended no-load idling. Service writer even said to limit warm-up and do more like we do with gas engines--warm up under at least some load, mostly.

I wonder what a careful reading (and who does that?) of newer tractor manuals says about same? Engine technology is different now, Tier thisthatandtheother, etc. Deere seems to address it, one person said theirs does not (how old?). Anyone else with a new tractor see anything. I'll look at my Bobcat manuals, both are 2004 models.

And with the new "fuel factor", how much does your starter cost /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif?

Jim
Mt Burgha on the Rivanna in Va

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Trucks do not have a manual throttle so if you take your foot of the pedal the truck goes to low idle which is not healthy. This is why we say to idle around 1000-1200 rpms on a tractor because you can set the throttle anywhere. It is a fast idle to help keep the engine from building up soot and such.

 

[HGM]

You truck has an EGR valve, the EGR cooler can remove 700deg from the exhaust gas. If it is idleing, its sucking in cool air to begin with, add the cool exhaust gas and with todays fuel, you will have a sooting concern. This will cause sticking EGR's and turbo vanes for your truck. The dealer is right, dont idle your truck.

As for the tractors, idle for my Yanmar is about 1100-1200, depending on where you put the stick. I agree a low idle would be bad, just listen to it knock at idle(some are worse than others). A 1100rpm idle is not bad, it helps cool the engine and maintain lube pressure. Diesel generators run 24/7, rpm varies on load.

 

[flusher]

I'm a newbie to CUTs with a whoopin' 18 hours so far on my B7510HST/LA302 FEL that I got last June.

The Kubota manual has a "yellow page" section (10 pages or so) on operating safety. You know what it says: don't leave the seat without putting the gears in neutral, setting the parking brake, shutting off the engine, and putting the key in your pocket.

I assume this warning/advice is an OSHA-related requirement and may be required by Kubota's insurance carrier.

IIRC, Kubota does recommend dropping the rpm to idle before shutting the engine down. Safety apparently trumps any concerns about wear or soot problems from stopping/starting engine according to Kubota.

My gut-feeling is that many (nearly all?) experienced CUT owners ignore this procedure 100% of the time and hop off the running tractor when necessary, probably after lowering the rpm to idle (1000-1200 rpm). If it's a gear-type tractor, the tranny is in neutral and (maybe) the parking brake is set. This is my guess since I've only owned an HST-type.

I'll admit that on several occasions on level ground or in the concrete-floored garage I've gotten off the seat with the engine at idle, in low gear and no parking brake. I rationalize this violation of "best/safe practice" with the "is starting/stopping the engine going to do some kind of damage".

I do this, but I'm not entirely comfortable doing this.

Hmmm, cost of (possible) engine repairs vs. possible injury from an (apparently) unsafe practice. This should be a no-brainer.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

To protect themselves they have to tell people to shut the tractor down but to follow proper shut down procedures. If they told people to just lower the idle and hop off and someone got hurt they would be in court the next day.

I would think a smaller cut would have more wear on the engine then a larger farm tractor because the cut will get used for a short time then shut down, start back up and shut down. Where as a larger tractor will be run for a longer period of time before shutdown and parked for the night.

 

[anojones]

I'm new to tractors as well- and have a JD3320 with the e-hydro. Maybe I'm wrong, but on level ground, when getting on and off the running tractor to do whatever it seems safer to leave it in gear on a hydro. In neutral (without the brake) it seems more likely to roll- and the 3320 has a safety- someone must be in the seat in order for the tractor to move when the hydro pedal is depressed. I generally leave the thing in gear and when parked just drop the loader and 3PH/implement- on level ground it's not going anywhere.

 

[jgh]

20050911

That reminds me--my first diesel was a Mercedes 300D, 1975, with the then new 5 cyl engine. It indeed had a manual throttle. I cannot recall how use of that was covered in the owners manual, but I used it to smooth out the engine vibrations, etc. Sounds like such a throttle would be a good idea on modern diesel powered vehicles.

Got a Bobcat warming now at about 1100 RPM.

J
Mt Burgha on the Rivanna in VA

 

[Boomerang1]

Before electronic controlled engines, all big trucks had a manual idol control knob. You pulled it out and then turned it for fine adjustment. It was just a cable that was hooked to the throttle linkage. Some drivers would use it for cruise control! Very dangerous. Now, with electronic cruise, you just hit the resume switch and the idol will go to a preset speed of around 900 rpm. If you hold down the switch, you can go anywhere from low idol up to rated rpm in case you need to run an air pump or something. You can also set the base rpm with the switch also.

 

[kennyd]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Before electronic controlled engines, all big trucks had a manual idol control knob. You pulled it out and then turned it for fine adjustment. It was just a cable that was hooked to the throttle linkage. Some drivers would use it for cruise control! Very dangerous. )</font>

The old International Cab-over that my Father used to drive had a rod that went down along side of the steering column, to over the accelerator pedal, you could push the rod down and lock it in place with a thumbscrew. It was used for fast idle, NEVER cruise control /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[RalphVa]

If I'm on a slope, I set parking brake and put HST selector in Low and shut off engine first. It's safer than being run over by an idling tractor whose parking brake doesn't hold, or you forgot to set.

If it's on a fairly flat surface and don't need much time to do something, I'll leave it running with parking brake set.

Read somewhere where a diesel uses less fuel sitting and idling for a fairly long period vs. using engine power through the alternator to recharge battery for restarts. Whereas, on a gas engine, you'll use less fuel if you shut it off even for brief periods, even at stop lights if you know it has just changed and can easily see a yellow light on the signal to restart before some impatient so and so honks at you. I've been in cabs in other countries where fuel has been high like ours is now long ago. They'd shut off the engines at stop lights.

As far as sooting up, I think you get more soot by shutting down and letting it cool rather than letting it run.

As far as following the manual's advice to remove and pocket the key, I don't follow this. Don't normally have any pockets to put the key into. Some lawyer who doesn't own a tractor and who has never missplaced keys wrote this into them.

Ralph