Idle tractor or turn off?

[cford36]

As far as I know the dpf essentially only "works" when there is the soot trying to come out of the exhaust. And usually there is soot upon startup and under load where not all of the fuel gets burned in the combustion chamber.

Personally if I know I'll be off the tractor and not working on it for 20-30mins I turn it off.

If the tractor has a cabin which heats up or cools off, rather quickly. Frequent start ups also put a load on the heater or AC since you turn them up to heat or cool the cabin faster.

Not exactly, the DPF is always "working", it's a filter thats traps the soot particles not a machine that's on or off. Soots always being ceated, it's a diesel.

Some copy and paste info on its operation (references car, but as far as I know the systems are the same.)

"The Diesel Particulate Filter was introduced to help diesel cars pass increasingly tough emissions tests. Its job is to trap soot particles produced through the burning of diesel, and prevent them from entering the atmosphere. Like any filter, DPFs become clogged after so many miles, and then require cleaning."

"Rather than cleaning the DPF, the term used by professionals is DPF regeneration as, technically, the soot particles are burnt off from the filter to regenerate it. This usually happens automatically when the engine reaches a certain temperature normally at motorway speed, or during a long drive if you're driving more slowly. This is referred to as passive DPF regeneration as neither the driver nor the car does anything out of the ordinary it just happens."

If these tractors operate basically the same as vehicle systems, if your operating your tractor and working it hard enough and the exhaust gets up to temp you are burning off soot (passive regeneration). If you idling around and the temps don't get up the DPF will plug faster and you will see more "active" regens, the ones you get notice of.

"If a car spends most of its time being driven around town on short start-stop journeys, the exhaust doesn't get up to temperature so the soot doesnn't get burnt off and the DPF does not regenerate on its own."

"Thankfully, the engine monitors the DPF and when its starts to get blocked, it will alert the driver; this is normally represented as a dashboard warning light. If the DPF warning light comes on itç—´ because the engine management system needs to actively regenerate the DPF. You should take your car on a run to allow the regeneration process to take place. Most engine management systems will actively regenerate the DPF when the car is driven at speeds above 40mph for around 10 to 15 minutes. The soot particles trapped in the filter will soon burn away and the warning light should switch off."

This is the same discussion that took place years ago when I got my pickup with the DPF system and they were new to everyone. The same misinformation and "old" diesel style of thinking and not understanding how the system works. As far as I know these operate the same, possibly a little more simply and not monitoring the percentage of soot and just start regens based on hours. I havent had mine long enough to see what happens.

 

[namesray]

First off thanks everyone for all your replies. Interesting to see what others think and do in simular situations. Lots of differing thoughts. One of my biggest concerns was the long term effects of repeatedly doing either technique (idle or shut off) numerous times. I feel its one thing for a tractor owner to idle an engine for 10 to 15 minutes say for 5 hours total a year. Same thing for turning engine off for those 10 to 15 minutes and restarting a total of say 50 times a year. But in my situation it would be ideling over 70 hours a year or 300 to 400 restarts. I put 250 to 350 hours a year on tractor mostly doing firewood in some way shape or form.

So I was wondering specifically that difference. I would prefer to shut it off. The noise drives me nuts and like someone else mentioned, makes me feel rushed while I would be blocking up tree top with chainsaw. I like the peaceful ness from just hearing the chainsaw and not having the thought of my tractor adding hours when all I "need" running is the chainsaw. So I guess that will be my decision for now, atleast for the larger tree tops.

I am still not completly confident that shutting it off is the best long term decision, but 70 hours a year, over the next 10 years is 700 hours of just holding a log in the air idling. So that is my thoughts for now. Once again thanks again to all.

 

[Texasmark]

My 6530 consumes .047 gallons/hp/hr. The hp in that equation is actual being used at the time hp. The idling thing had other reasons for being popular....like low compression, worn out engines, that are hard to start and if you were lucky enough to get her rolling better not shut her off till finished the job type thing.

So let's say 5 hp will turn the engine and drive line at 600 rpm idle. 128 oz. x .047 x 5 hp = 1 qt. At today's diesel prices here, $2.25 per gallon, 1 qt = 56 cents/hr, not counting wear and tear which is hard to determine.

 

[N80]

That's definitely the way it used to be, but I think most of them are just counting hours with the key on now. So, an hour of run time is an hour on the meter regardless of RPM.

My tractor is 12 years old so I can't speak to anything newer. But the hour meter doesn't budge at low RPMs.

The more I hear about newer tractors the happier I am that I have an old one. It also makes me wonder if I shouldn't be looking for a good condition/low hour tractor without all the polution junk to stow away for future use.

 

[N80]

I am still not completly confident that shutting it off is the best long term decision, but 70 hours a year, over the next 10 years is 700 hours of just holding a log in the air idling. So that is my thoughts for now. Once again thanks again to all.

Again, reading through this thread, the take home message, as I see it, is that it really makes no difference whatsoever and most of the reasons for what people prefer to do are based primarily on preference and not much else. Your diesel and all its components will probably outlast you regardless of your approach to this issue.

 

[Catman8]

I shut it off because like you I don't want to listen to the noise, you can't put a price on your sanity and happiness, the machine I can repair or replace down the road.

 

[dragoneggs]

I think after reading the replies here, I will start shutting mine down more often during my projects. I always do enjoy the peace when I shut it off. I was thinking the repeated starts were hard on the diesel engine. If it is just wear/strain on the battery and starter, I can accept that.

 

[CalG]

From the first response, to these last few, there have been many good comments on the subject. I find it rewarding that "human considerations" seem to carry the sentiment. It's about time that "people are lifted above machines". It's been a long time the other way.
War and commerce will dehumanize nearly everything.

 

[bdog]

The idea that tractors can run all day at idle may be true for older diesels, not tier 4 engines. All your going to do is plug up all the emissions crap. These engines are more efficient meaning more of that energy is used for work that turned into excess heat. You will not maintain a high enough exhaust temp at idle. At minimum high idle, but your probably better off turning it off.

My 2017 F-450 has over 600 idle hours and no issues. My 2016 GMC had about 2000 idle hours when I traded it and no problems. I am sure it is not as good for these emission engines as the previous versions but they are more robust than most people think.

 

[bdog]

I think after reading the replies here, I will start shutting mine down more often during my projects. I always do enjoy the peace when I shut it off. I was thinking the repeated starts were hard on the diesel engine. If it is just wear/strain on the battery and starter, I can accept that.

There is more than just the wear on the starter. The most wear on your engine occurs at start up. Will it kill it? No not any time soon but it still is more wear. What concerns me more is being at operating temp when doing work. We move a lot of dirt and have a dump truck. I often load and drive the dump truck by myself. I leave the skid steer running all day. I don't think it is good to load the truck which is strenuous on the machine then instantly shut it off and drive away and then come back and start it up and go right to heavy work. I let it run and it is always ready and cools down the turbo after work. It is tier 4 too.