ignition left on, now won't start with key.

[brokenknee]

Sisters boy friend, gave me some forks off an old fork lift. I wasn't home at the time and told him to unload them with the tractor, (It was the whole assembly and pretty heavy). This was Tuesday, went out to the shed this morning to change oil in the tractor and mount the snow blower (yep, getting that time of year). This is when I discovered he left the key in the on position, not sure why he would have turn it there after he shut her down but he did.

Well I figured it was just a dead battery, no big deal. Put the charger on and let her charge for a while no luck, turned the charger to boost, still no luck. I then jumped the solenoid, started right up.

Any thoughts on what could have happened? Solenoid, relay? Not sure where to start or how to test. It is a cub 7305 30HP with a mitubeeshe (engine name spelled incorrectly) engine 3cyl.

 

[mmurphy]

Test voltage on small wire going to solenoid when you put switch to start (not on, But start) position. If you get 12 volts, (I assume you have 12 volt) then solenoid probably is bad.
Chances are he killed engine under a load and spaced off the switch. I doubt that caused the solenoid problem, cause it should not be energized in the on position.

 

[Transit]

Do not overlook the clutch interlock switch and the wires to it. You say that you [jumped the solenoid]; I take it that you bridged the two large studs. The solenoid has a smaller terminal that gets 12 volts from the start switch/key. You can jump that terminal to any 12 volt point to engage the solenoid, if that works the noid is ok and you have a problem from that terminal back to the key.

 

[pat32rf]

When someone else shuts YOUR machinery off its not uncommon to do things differently, causing all sorts of problems. Neighbours kid ran to the barn for me on my bike one day. The next day I found the key ON, and it wouldn't even click when I hit the start switch.
Pulled off the seat and removed battery cover, fetched booster from basement, still nada...
Got the charger from the barn and left it on overnight, thinking that my booster battery was dead as well.
On the third day I was still getting no-where when I happened to see that while he had left the KEY on, he had shut it off with the master KILL switch... something I NEVER do.
Check the obvious first, even if its not so obvious.....

 

[brokenknee]

Test voltage on small wire going to solenoid when you put switch to start (not on, But start) position. If you get 12 volts, (I assume you have 12 volt) then solenoid probably is bad.
Chances are he killed engine under a load and spaced off the switch. I doubt that caused the solenoid problem, cause it should not be energized in the on position.

The wife just got home a bit ago, first thing I did was get her out to the shed to turn the key to start for me. Nope no voltage.

Transit, do you know how I would check the clutch interlock switch? If I take the wire off and jumper them, if its bad should it work? I think I know were this is, on the tranny, left side front? (I did jump the solenoid as you described)

pat32rf, I don't think I have a master kill switch. Even if I did I don't think that would be it as it will start by jumping the solenoid.

 

[Soundguy]

I'd check any OP presence switches, NS switches.. pto.. gear shift range , etc switches. power from the key goes thru all of those interlocks before hitting the solenoid energize tab.

soundguy

 

[mmurphy]

Do not overlook the clutch interlock switch and the wires to it. You say that you [jumped the solenoid]; I take it that you bridged the two large studs. The solenoid has a smaller terminal that gets 12 volts from the start switch/key. You can jump that terminal to any 12 volt point to engage the solenoid, if that works the noid is ok and you have a problem from that terminal back to the key.

:thumbsup:

 

[texasjohn]

I'm with what SOUNDGUY said..... if all that fails, maybe switch itself is bad and not closing the circuit when turned??

Interlocks first, failing that, check key switch.... then I'm out of ideas.

 

[J_J]

It could be a relay contacts stuck. With the switch on, the relay closed, and stayed this way until the battery voltage was depleated. Find the relay that provides voltage to the gages, other relays,electric fuel shut off, if it has one. If you have the manual, with electrical diagram, check the voltage to the relay. Bypass the seat and clutch switch if necessary.

 

[777777]

Hi,

Most likely a relay. Cubs are infamous for not starting because of relay issues. In many cases, with the number of relays, you end up with insufficient power getting to the solenoid to engage it.

If you ask in the Cub forums, will probably get an answer quicker as there is a fairly easy fix for it that involves a bit of wiring but can't recall exactly right now.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[ampa]

Check all your connections from the ign. switch/solenoid/battery...I had a simlar problem with a little lawn tractor <>Ampa

 

[Transit]

The wife just got home a bit ago, first thing I did was get her out to the shed to turn the key to start for me. Nope no voltage.

Transit, do you know how I would check the clutch interlock switch? If I take the wire off and jumper them, if its bad should it work? I think I know were this is, on the tranny, left side front? (I did jump the solenoid as you described)

pat32rf, I don't think I have a master kill switch. Even if I did I don't think that would be it as it will start by jumping the solenoid.

Brokenknee, the Clutch Interlock Switch should be located under the tractor next to the transmission where the clutch peddle shaft enters the tranny.
When you press down on the clutch peddle the arm contacts the switch and closes the contacts. There may be connectors in the circuit or maybe a broken wire anywhere in the circuit or as others say, a stuck relay.
System prints would be most helpful in locating all the interlocks.
Were you able to activate the solenoid directly to start the engine?

 

[brokenknee]

Forgot to mention, it has a hydrostatic transmission. The safety neutral switch I am pretty sure I located on the tranny by the range swift lever. I unplugged that and it has 9.2 volts to it when I turn the key to the start position. The voltage at the battery was 12.5 volts.

I unplugged the two wires going to the neutral switch and put in a jumper wire, still no go. I also located two relays that are by the starter. One was a 60 amp, the other was a 50 amp. I unplugged both relays and checked for continuity, both had it.

Don't think I have a switch on the seat, started many times just standing by the tractor.

I was able to activate the solenoid directly to start the engine. At least I am not without my tractor but is a bit inconvenient.

 

[Soundguy]

9.2v? sounds like upstream resistance..

soundguy

 

[brokenknee]

9.2v? sounds like upstream resistance..

soundguy

I thought that was low. That should be around 12 volts also, correct? No voltage showing at the solenoid wire with the key in start position.

 

[Soundguy]

since it is an open circuit.. it should be bat volts.. IE.. no current flow.. no voltage drop. that low 9.2v reading tells me bad switch / very bad connection..

soundguy

 

[brokenknee]

since it is an open circuit.. it should be bat volts.. IE.. no current flow.. no voltage drop. that low 9.2v reading tells me bad switch / very bad connection..

soundguy

Is there a way to check the switch short of replacing it?

 

[Soundguy]

ohm meter.. or test volts going in and volts coming out

 

[Transit]

Is there a way to check the switch short of replacing it?

First, good to know that you are able to start the engine by activating the solenoid; it takes it off the problem list.
I take it that the 9.2 volt reading is at the interlock switch and jumpering it makes no difference.
Ok, what is upstream to the interlock switch, the ignition switch? If so, than that switch has a lead going back in the direction of the battery, find that terminal. You should read 12V or battery voltage at that terminal with and without turning the key. If not, keep going upstream toward the battery, look at any connections, plugs, fuses and fuses blocks.

 

[J_J]

Have you tried to place an amp meter in each circuit to trace where the current is going? Is you manual good enough for you to trace out all the voltage paths. If something is drawing current, it should be getting warm. Do you have one of these electronic temp guns with laser pointer that you aim at whatever component you want the temp reading?