I'm at the thinking about heating stage of my barn build...

[mx842]

I have been searching for the past couple days for threads about heating for my building and have almost decided to use the radiant type system and heat the floor in my shop. I read a bunch of post but all I could find were older threads that were several years old, most were way back in 2000/2003.

I'm sure there are people that have done this more recently than way back in 2001 and was wondering if anyone would like to talk about this type of project. I already have a boiler stove in my plans for heating my house and will probably use it to power the system in my shop also.

The main floor in the shop will be 32'X40' with a 20' wide pad in front of the building (32' side). That is a fairly large pad and was wondering about expansion joints. Also what do you do at the big entrance door about heat loss in that 12' wide space. I plan on insulating the floor with rigid foam board and from what I read in the threads I looked at it seems that most of the heat loss is on the side walls at ground level around the outer edges of the building. It looks like the two big doors I have in my shop will dump a lot of heat right out the door.

Also how do you keep mice from getting under the pad and eating the insulation like they like to do? That seems to be a real problem here where I am at. When I poured my garage floor in my house I dug down almost 10" on the outer edges of the floor and they still got under it and ate through the expansion joint around the inside edges and made themselves right at home.

 

[tommu56]

Were are you located there is a couple choices on how to put the foam in so the cold doesn't creep under the slab were you are might change the plan.

If you have stone under the foam mice wont move it or a perimeter block wall if you have to build it up too far.

The rat guard on the bottom of the wall will keep them from going up the ribs and in to the wall/building.

Make sure you have good drainage under the slab (read more stone)

My pole building (although not heated) was on a slope and I left the grade natural and filled in the 18" in one corner with stone and re graded the high side so the run off would run around it not under it to prevent frost heave.

 

[mx842]

Were are you located there is a couple choices on how to put the foam in so the cold doesn't creep under the slab were you are might change the plan.

If you have stone under the foam mice wont move it or a perimeter block wall if you have to build it up too far.

The rat guard on the bottom of the wall will keep them from going up the ribs and in to the wall/building.

Make sure you have good drainage under the slab (read more stone)

My pole building (although not heated) was on a slope and I left the grade natural and filled in the 18" in one corner with stone and re graded the high side so the run off would run around it not under it to prevent frost heave.

I am in central Va. and you don't see too many of these heating systems around here, at least from what I can find. I must have super mice around here because I used a combination of crushed stone and also put a load of rock dust in the pad and it was mixed in together to get it up to grade. The house is also brick so there is a 8" block wall all the way down to the foundation and I poured the cinder blocks full of concrete to one course above the ground line. I remember the electric company raising heck when they had to drill a hole through it to run the power line. :laughing: They filled in the hole with concrete but it is possible I guess the mice could be getting in through there some way. I don't know how they did it but I had a work bench on the wall in one corner right after I moved into the house and it stayed there for 15 years until I got some new ones. When I took the old bench out I could see where they had eat right through the fiber expansion joint and piled up sand, rocks, rock dust in a pile that it took 3, 5 gal buckets to haul out. Old, Ho Chi Minh would have been proud of the network of trails they had made in and out from under the slab.

Once they got in the garage they went through the wall where the HVAC equipment and vents entered the rest of the house. They got in the walls and tore out insulation and also ate through several electrical wires and luckily they didn't set the house on fire. One day the lights in the kitchen started to flicker and I heard a popping and cracking noise near a wall and I could smell burning hair and flesh. It happened to be next to an access hole for some plumbing equipment and I took off the panel and could see this big azz mouse had chewed through the wire and had electrocuted himself before he finished doing what ever it was he thought he was doing.

When I found out how they were getting into the house I went all around the slab and pulled out all the expansion joint that was left and filled the crack with hydraulic cement and in one place behind the old work bench I was able to pack 3 1/2 40lb bags of the stuff before it filled up the void where they had been digging. Then I went out and bought several packs of Decon and put it all over the place, Attic, under the house, garage until they stopped eating it which meant they were probably all dead. At first when I put it down they would carry the whole box away then as the days passed it was a little more there every time I checked it until there were no signs that they were messing with it. I haven't had any problems since but I still set out a box of Decon ever now an then just to be sure.

Most of my floor was in a cut area where I had to take dirt out and I took out some extra so I could get a good stone base under the concrete but there is one corner that I had to fill in two feet or more and I used good dirt to fill in about a foot and the rest will be filled in with gravel. I am also going to fill in around any conduit that comes into the building with concrete to keep out any water or pest from gaining access to and under the pad.

 

[srs]

The rat guard on the bottom of the wall will keep them from going up the ribs and in to the wall/building.

How deep does the mice/rat guard need to be?

 

[raasd]

We have in floor heat and love it. There is some heat loss at the doors and where the pad extends past the doors but it isn't bad. The efficiency of the system more than makes up for any of that loss. I didn't see where you are located but around here we have to worry about frost heave. we poured a continuous footed slap in one pour. dug a 4in by 48in trench for the footing and just poored it with the slab, foam board under the slab part. Never thought about mice getting underneath there but I would assume that they wouldn't make it 4 ft down.

 

[SPIKER]

I have it at least started. like others mentioned keeping cold out of the floor coming up from underneath is #1. My barn has been up a pretty long time see build up photos here all way through coating the floor with Rustolium stain which I HATE did not penetrate and the sealer wrinkels up with about ANY kind of liquid cleaner or oil product on it.


BARN photos pictures by WPSPIKER - Photobucket

putting in some foam also used the foam radiant barrier (foil Bubble bubble and poly) then added a 2nd layer of foam. all of the foam and foil poly was taped up the seams as well as a poly 4 mil plastic vapor barrier on the bottom prior to the foam. I have treated 2x8 T&G skirt boards going 3 or 4 deep under ground as well as have foam on inside and outside of the skirt boards as well. tile around the outside of the barn for drainage (important for keeping frost heave away.) Keep the barn floor dry will also help keep critters out from under it all bugs and mice like moist soil which will hold its form and be easier to dig through.

Prior to putting in the slab I dug in all my utilities Water Sewer Elec. Service, Outside wood boiler heat tube and I added 2 spare 4" tile so I can later add Gas or Power or? up through the slab.

The mice & rat issues can be contained with a outside barn cat or two. ALso keep a well mowed green space around the barn/house which will force them to be exposed when retrieving food.

Mark

 

[tommu56]

How deep does the mice/rat guard need to be?

the rat guard is a piece of metal that the siding sits on

fabral calls it a base guard

Wheeling Corrugating drawing

 

[srs]

the rat guard is a piece of metal that the siding sits on

fabral calls it a base guard



Wheeling Corrugating drawing

I understand the rat/mice guard but I thought the piece of metal would be slid into the ground to prevent the rat/mice from burying underneath the metal then entering the building. That is why I asked what depth it should be. If the metal just attaches to the side of the building and rests on the ground/grass, wouldn't the rodents be able to dig underneath it? Just wondering! Thanks.

 

[tommu56]

I understand the rat/mice guard but I thought the piece of metal would be slid into the ground to prevent the rat/mice from burying underneath the metal then entering the building. That is why I asked what depth it should be. If the metal just attaches to the side of the building and rests on the ground/grass, wouldn't the rodents be able to dig underneath it? Just wondering! Thanks.

it is just so they cant get up in the wall not under the slab

tom

 

[Kays Supply]

I just finished installling a radiant system in a 6000 sq ft gagage and am starting a system in the same customers pet pig and goat barn. He is crazy in love with the system in his house and garage. The most interesting fact is that it is 70 at 1 ft above the floor and 68 at the 14ft ceiling. My HVAC buddy wouldn't believe it, so he went down and used a pistol type themometer on it and it checked out.