i'm baackk

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: i\'m baackk

this is probably what they did - the old ones as well as the new ones are White - Terry told me so - I just didn't know what series / displacement - you can tell just by measurements? - I wonder what series the new ones are - so do you change only the relief - or the actually system operating pressure settings?

I do think they increased the displacement as well because Terry told me so - he said that max speed dropped to around 7mph -

I recall last year that he told me that the pump pressure is pre set from the (Eaton) factory and that you could not change it - and it was set basically at maximum operating pressure - the reason I asked him was because I was considering increasing the operating pressure if I could find out the specs and settings on the machine - but was not able to obtain this info - so I would be basically operating in the dark and finally decided to leave it the way it is and buy the 1845.

I spent hours going through Eaton catalogs trying to figure out the pump model so I could get the specs from Eaton - I never was able to identify it - and what numbers I got off of it didn't mean anything to the Eaton people I spoke with on the phone

- They said - "why don't you just call the tractor Company and ask them for the Eaton model number - that would save you so much time" - Now theres an idea

No - I told them I just love the hunt - that would spoil the fun


Well it would be great to identify all this stuff - old wheel motors model number, displacement, new ones
and the pump as well as all the settings - that would just be great -

 

[johara1]

Re: i\'m baackk

i would check the rpm on the engine,free and under load this may have a lot to do with the problems.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: i\'m baackk

I actually never did that - checked rpms - but I can just tell that the engine is operating properly - it has plenty of power - and when I am cutting at full throttle in the summer on these hills (20 - 22 degrees ) - I know the rpms are up over 3000 because I can hear the engine racing - it just seems that the heat of the oil, conditions, slope - mower running - etc - all together degrade the peformance of the wheel motors (or the pump -but I think it is the wheel motors - the sound is a high pitched whine) everything together add to heat and stress

and then the machine shutters when i crest the steepest part of the hill) which I guess is the reliefs lifting - it is just the limits of these wheel motors - It did climb and make the hill all summer while cutting - I just felt that i was stressing the machine more than I should have been

In fact my friend who is heavy equipment operator (40 ton excavator) was over when I was cutting this really steep part -he told me to stop and check the oil - as his machine makes that noise when it is low on oil - of course the oil level was fine as was the filter - etc. - so he thought that maybe the oil was getting too hot and the machine is losing efficiency - he also wondered why it uses 10w40 instead of hydraulic oil (with antifoam agents)

I told him - of course that I guess they just designed it to use 10w40 and that I thought that I was just running up against the limits of the machine .

Which is exactly what I still think and they confirmed with the redesign - Terry told me that under my conditions - my 425 is basically spent after 18- 20 degrees

Remember - 20 degrees is very steep

 

[johara1]

Re: i\'m baackk

this is on reason i'm going to syn. oil it disapates heat better.easer on it in the winter and the summer.
i also run equip. the d11's were loosing final drives a lot , by changing to syn. oil they doubled the life of the finals. the engines also gain life with syn. oil /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: i\'m baackk

<font color="red"> this is on reason i'm going to syn. oil </font>

Even with the price you mentioned earlier, 10 gal of synthetic will pinch a bit.
I'm going to Amsoil oil for the engine, but my 20 gal hydraulic oil will stay as delivered for a while longer.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: i\'m baackk

Is it easy to change all the hydraulic oil? - don't you have to get every bit out ? - I assume you can't have any of the old oil in the system if you go to synthetic

Do you know the difference between regular oil and say Castrol heavy duty hydraulic oil like the stuff they use in big machines? - that stuff is pretty expensive - I remember because my friend blew a hose while working here last summer - and I had to run out and pick up several pails
for him - real expensive

Do you think that with regular 1040 it gets thin and you get blow by through the tolerances?

You think the synthethic will reduce that?

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: i\'m baackk

Ed: Most if not all of the synthetics say they are compatible with fossil oils, so it isn't necessary to get every last drop out. I have seen recommendations in various applications just to start adding synthetic when needed, since "some synthetic is better than none." If you search the web for "synthetic oil" you'll probably come across that article.
According to what I've read, the synthetics are better in extreme cold, because they don't thicken as much, and better in extreme heat because they maintain lubricity. Within normal operating ranges, however, their viscosity is as rated, and there isn't as much variation from fossil oil performance. It's hard to predict, therefore, whether in hot operation you'd get more effective power transmittion in the hydraulic systems.
I've seen a number of people saying they got easier cold starting, but not much comment on hot weather power when the synthetics are used in hydraulic systems. In fact, most tests suggest no change in engine performance with synthetics, but longer change intervals and reduced wear over time.

 

[johara1]

Re: i\'m baackk

charlie,
the use of syn. oil almost doubled the life of the 3508 engines, from 10000 hr's to 18000. we also had to turn the idle back, this i think is due to less friction. this was a average of 12 diff. d11 dozers over the span of 40000 hrs each.
what i'm driving at is,ever little bit helps and less wear on the pumps and wheel motors.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: i\'m baackk

Johara1:
I wasn't suggesting that synthetics don't do good things, just that it would be hard to predict any improvement in power transmission in the hydraulic system, since most systems do not experience the high temperatures of engine service. Although the promotional literature for synthetics often touts performance increases, they are most often referring to lubricity at low and high temperatures. Dyno testing in normal ranges has seldom shown significant power increases, although some amount may be observable. The real benefits are reduced degradation over time, reduced evaporation, better additives to handle contaminants, etc.
There is certainly no doubt that particularly in hard service, synthetics extend engine life and aren't as expensive as they seem because change intervals can safely be extended. For me, however, at 150 hours per year, I would have to live to be about 216 years old to wear out a pump or motor even with fossil oil, and if I trash it due to damage or contamination, synthetic won't save it, so for now I'm saving my $400 in the hydraulic system. It is Amsoil for the Deutz, however.

 

[Rocketman]

Re: i\'m baackk

As you guys know, contamination and heat are the two main enemies of a hydraulic system.
Contamination can be controlled by using a good quality filter (10 micron or so), changing it often, and keeping the system as tight as possible (leave the filler lid screwed on!).
Heat has always been a problem for the manufacturers - I've worked on this with Eaton. But the real heat issue may not be what you think?????????????? As you change direction of fluid flow (treddle) there is a very serious "instantaneous" spike in temperature and pressure on the high side of the pump. String enough of these direction changes together and you end up with an overheated pump with galling and eventual failure not far behind. I know you are saying to yourself, now Rocketman this is all well and good but what the heck does this have to do with the discussion at hand? The relevance is that synthetics do a superior job in dampening the temperature and pressure spikes – lessening the severity of conditions which induce pump failure. But, true synthetic hydraulic oil can cost as much as $20.00 per quart...now that is going to hurt!. There is a cheaper oil solution that performs much better than all other dinosaur juices (at dampening pressure/temperature spikes) - Mobile DTE26 at about $12.00 or less per gallon. I personally will be changing the hydraulic system's 10W40 motor oil to DTE26 as soon as possible after I get the tractor. For the benefits, synthetics in the engine are a good choice. Clean synthetics in the hydraulics are also a good technical choice and could make your hydraulics a nearly lifetime system.....if you could afford it.