MossRoad
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
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- Location
- South Bend, Indiana (near)
- Tractor
- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
I'm building a wood shed....I need some help
- Thread starter General Lee
- Start date
- Views: 28131
You can get a garden hose level they are cheap, two pieces screw on your hose they are clear plastic with level lines , attach to your hose, fill with water and then you can check each post. Or a laser level.
buckeyefarmer
Epic Contributor
You can level good with just a cheap eye level, one you look thru. Just put a pole under for constant height, aim at each post and have someone mark level on each post. Now you have a level reference.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
I sort of skimmed through the replies, so I might be repeating what others have said. Since you already have your first post set, and I see that you have run the other two for one of your walls, the 345 rule will get you where you need to be fore the back wall. If you look on a framing square, it has this stamped into it, along with a few other handy rules. How far back will the wall be? 6 8 and 10 feet are what I use most of the time for smaller areas. If one of the walls is one of those length, then it become super easy to figure out where to set the post. I have a lot of measuring tapes, so I just set three of them out to get it all lined up. You can also mark a board at 6 feet and 8 feet, then use your tape for ten feet. Once you get your corner set, double check all your other posts to make sure you are parallel.
For bigger structures, measuring from opposite corners is faster and easier. I use two long hundred foot tapes for this. I set the ends of each into the ground with a screw driver and create a large X. When both distances are the same, you have a perfect square.
I never try to set my posts at the exact same height. It's very difficult and 9 times out of ten, you get it wrong anyway. I set all my posts, then use a straight board and a level to find the lowest one, or mark all of them at the same height. It's always 100% accurate doing it this way. Odds are good that if you try any other method, you will still end up cutting them in place to get them perfect, so why waste your time being frustrated?
Your beams across the front opening need to be sized according to the span, or distance they are covering. How far apart are your post? Anything over 4 feet and I'm using something bigger then 2x6's for my beams. A pair of 2x8's will probably be good from what I'm seeing in your picture. Nothing less will hold up over time. The same thing applies for your joists that will form your roof. How far are you going? If it's 12 feet or less, 2x6's 24 inches apart would be the minimum. And if it was me, I'd probably use 2x8's if it was more then ten feet, and go up to 2x10's if it was over 14 feet, 2x12's for 16 feet and trusses after that.
I've always found that the cost of the next size up lumber to be insignificant to the overall cost of the building. I've also done a lot of jobs that cost my clients a lot of money to fix what would have only cost a hundred bucks or less if they had used the larger sized lumber when they built the roof.
For bigger structures, measuring from opposite corners is faster and easier. I use two long hundred foot tapes for this. I set the ends of each into the ground with a screw driver and create a large X. When both distances are the same, you have a perfect square.
I never try to set my posts at the exact same height. It's very difficult and 9 times out of ten, you get it wrong anyway. I set all my posts, then use a straight board and a level to find the lowest one, or mark all of them at the same height. It's always 100% accurate doing it this way. Odds are good that if you try any other method, you will still end up cutting them in place to get them perfect, so why waste your time being frustrated?
Your beams across the front opening need to be sized according to the span, or distance they are covering. How far apart are your post? Anything over 4 feet and I'm using something bigger then 2x6's for my beams. A pair of 2x8's will probably be good from what I'm seeing in your picture. Nothing less will hold up over time. The same thing applies for your joists that will form your roof. How far are you going? If it's 12 feet or less, 2x6's 24 inches apart would be the minimum. And if it was me, I'd probably use 2x8's if it was more then ten feet, and go up to 2x10's if it was over 14 feet, 2x12's for 16 feet and trusses after that.
I've always found that the cost of the next size up lumber to be insignificant to the overall cost of the building. I've also done a lot of jobs that cost my clients a lot of money to fix what would have only cost a hundred bucks or less if they had used the larger sized lumber when they built the roof.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Header sizing....how much snow do you get in your area? What is the roofing going to be? purlins and metal or heavier sheathing and shingles?
If I and picturing this right, the building is going to be 12' deep, and you are going to have 2 header openings on each 16' side. Those openings are 8' each.
So basically, each 8' header has to support 1/2 the depth of the building, or 6'. So each header is supporting 8x6 = 48 sq ft of roof.
30 pound per square foot total load would handle a a bit of snowfall. so thats 1440# over an 8' header, or 180 PLF (pounds per lineal foot).
A #2 2x6 is only good for 88plf. Doubling it would give you 176plf.
But again, we dont know your snowfall. Since you are using big 6x6 posts, I would notch the outside and use a 2x8, then notch the inside and use a 2x6. 2x8's are not that much more expensive than 2x6's. here is a good chart http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/AL_27-32L.pdf
If I and picturing this right, the building is going to be 12' deep, and you are going to have 2 header openings on each 16' side. Those openings are 8' each.
So basically, each 8' header has to support 1/2 the depth of the building, or 6'. So each header is supporting 8x6 = 48 sq ft of roof.
30 pound per square foot total load would handle a a bit of snowfall. so thats 1440# over an 8' header, or 180 PLF (pounds per lineal foot).
A #2 2x6 is only good for 88plf. Doubling it would give you 176plf.
But again, we dont know your snowfall. Since you are using big 6x6 posts, I would notch the outside and use a 2x8, then notch the inside and use a 2x6. 2x8's are not that much more expensive than 2x6's. here is a good chart http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/AL_27-32L.pdf
OP
General Lee
Veteran Member
The posts are 8 foot apart. 3 across the front and 3 in the back. I was not going to do a post on the sides. The shed is 12' deep and 16' wide.
LD1 - Snow in my area can be zero to a few inches and sometimes we will get one or two good snowfalls of 8-10 inches. Every few years we may get a dumping but its to inconsistent to judge. BUT I guess it only takes one good snow to do its thing. And yes you are correct on the header openings.
I really appreciate everyone's insight. I will be working on it more this weekend. If everything goes as planned I should have the back 3 posts set and I can start the front headers.
LD1
Epic Contributor
I would do as I suggested then for the headers. A 2x8 outside notched in the post, and a 2x6 on the inside notched in as well. Dont forget to account for the angle of the rafter when doing this.
12' sides is a long way to span if doing the wall girts with 2x4's scabbed on the sides. Not alot of resistance to wind buckling the wall. I would do the 2x4's set inbetween the posts, and laid flat. (basically the same direction as you would a wall stud, but horizontal rather than vertical.)
2x6's should be fine for joists but no more than 16" oc.
And I would have put the posts more than 2' in the ground. Dont know what your frost depth is, but that wouldnt be my concern, rather uplift, especially with a whole side left open. A little wind will create alot of uplift. And on that note, make sure you use proper hurricane ties and not just rely on toe-nails for the joist connection. And use plenty of nails or lags, or carriage bolts to secure the header to the posts.
12' sides is a long way to span if doing the wall girts with 2x4's scabbed on the sides. Not alot of resistance to wind buckling the wall. I would do the 2x4's set inbetween the posts, and laid flat. (basically the same direction as you would a wall stud, but horizontal rather than vertical.)
2x6's should be fine for joists but no more than 16" oc.
And I would have put the posts more than 2' in the ground. Dont know what your frost depth is, but that wouldnt be my concern, rather uplift, especially with a whole side left open. A little wind will create alot of uplift. And on that note, make sure you use proper hurricane ties and not just rely on toe-nails for the joist connection. And use plenty of nails or lags, or carriage bolts to secure the header to the posts.
OP
General Lee
Veteran Member
Now I'm aggravated. I've been out measuring for the rear posts and I can't get anything to square up. I felt good about the front posts and I have to pull off of those as they are set. I square the corners and when I pull my 16' length across the back I'm like the width of a whole 6x6 off. I don't know where I'm going wrong. Something got off somewhere and I can't find it. I'm thinking of just squaring the two outer rear corners the best I can and pulling off the front posts 12' to get my depth. Its frustrating because the front went pretty smooth.
LD1 - good advice, that I will follow. Thank you.
LD1 - good advice, that I will follow. Thank you.
LD1
Epic Contributor
How are you attempting to square it up?
With only referencing the front two outer posts, you cant have done anything wrong yet, as long as those are 16' apart.
It might take two tape measures and a second set of hands, but measure the diagonal, and the side. where the numbers meet up is your mark.
IE: If the side is 12' outside to outside of post, hook one tape on the corner post and measure out 12'.
If the long side is 16' outside to outside, have a helper hold a tape on the INSIDE corner of the other front post.
Now here is where it gets trickey, the diagonal measure of 12' x 16' should be 20' as we all know. But you have to subtract the diagonal of the post thickness since you are holding it to the inside corner. Which I like doing because otherwise you are "wrapping" the tape around the post to get to the outside, or just eyeballing it. so a 6x6 post is really ~5.5x5.5, and the diagonal would be 7-3/4". So take that off of 20 and you have 232-1/4".
So, with the two tapes at each of the front two posts, when 12' meets 232-1/4", THAT would be the OUTSIDE point of the back 6x6. Do the same for the other side and confirm the 16'.
Now it the building isnt exactaly 12x16, say you made it a little smaller to allow for siding or whatever, just adjust accordingly.
And this "can" be done with one person as well with some string. Tie a string around each front posts and make pre-measured marks at the 12' and 232-1/4" marks. Pull strings tight and where the marks meet is your corner.
With only referencing the front two outer posts, you cant have done anything wrong yet, as long as those are 16' apart.
It might take two tape measures and a second set of hands, but measure the diagonal, and the side. where the numbers meet up is your mark.
IE: If the side is 12' outside to outside of post, hook one tape on the corner post and measure out 12'.
If the long side is 16' outside to outside, have a helper hold a tape on the INSIDE corner of the other front post.
Now here is where it gets trickey, the diagonal measure of 12' x 16' should be 20' as we all know. But you have to subtract the diagonal of the post thickness since you are holding it to the inside corner. Which I like doing because otherwise you are "wrapping" the tape around the post to get to the outside, or just eyeballing it. so a 6x6 post is really ~5.5x5.5, and the diagonal would be 7-3/4". So take that off of 20 and you have 232-1/4".
So, with the two tapes at each of the front two posts, when 12' meets 232-1/4", THAT would be the OUTSIDE point of the back 6x6. Do the same for the other side and confirm the 16'.
Now it the building isnt exactaly 12x16, say you made it a little smaller to allow for siding or whatever, just adjust accordingly.
And this "can" be done with one person as well with some string. Tie a string around each front posts and make pre-measured marks at the 12' and 232-1/4" marks. Pull strings tight and where the marks meet is your corner.
Cord
Veteran Member
It would have to be a very short roof span with no snow load and a very short opening... in other words NO.