I'm going to need a good lawyer :-(

[RADIUM]

well try as I might to make things better, I give up. As you know by some of my posts I've had a few problems with this tractor the last problem was just a mechanical failure I wasn't too upset about that. I've owned the tractor just over a year and a few months now it's got major problems , I been trying to explain to my dealer that the tractor's transmission housing and three-point hitch arms are alarmingly hot I was told this is normal within the last two months my loader has been moving slower and slower. My dealer sent me home with a thermal heat gun to measure some temperatures I post them they were around 193ｰF and out at the axle 157 or 178 and some were even slightly higher than 193 in 200 range. Well new Holland contacted my dealer after seeing the pictures and requested that they physically measure my tractor as though I were lying to verify these temperatures, that's what were going to do this morning, I know they'll get the same temperature results two hours mowing and she'll be hot enough to burn your skin if you touch any part of the transmission housing. The reason I want a lawyer my brother made some good points the seals around all the major transmission housing are all falling out and now the PTO seal is leaking my brother told me basically you have fried the entire transmission housing it's just a matter of time and all of the seals will start leaking not to mention the damage to the axle bearings from the excessive heat. My dealer concurred with this observation my brother made so now what to do, I'm going to make new Holland three offers 1 give me back my sizable down payment and I will call my year of payments a loss I will hand the tractor back to them 2 replaced the entire transmission, or rebuild it from the ground up new seals axle bearings and all of the parts including my hydraulic pump and extend my warranty 3 replace the tractor with the same model and will try again. I think if you look back at my post you'll see a long problem from day one delivery of a undrivable clutch a crack in my brand-new cab roof and six months of trying to feather the clutch when it was just the cab mounts needed to be replaced and now this big problem . I'm really upset at this point not only did I finally get the tractor the way I wanted, it really is the perfect size for what I need to do maintain the property around my house but also take care of the fieldwork, I've looked at a John Deere for second tractor the 5093 limited but it's just too big to drive around the house and barn area. No other manufacturer actually makes a unit this size there either a step smaller or a step too big I hope they hand me a new unit , or replace the entire transmission housing new, no offense to any dealer but I don't think they have a clean enough area to rebuild an entire transmission housing like a factory does were talking about something that should last 40 years with regular maintenance oh well I'll let you know what happens today the rep apparently is coming in to talk to me at around noon time wish me luck.

 

[Lone Oak Landscaping]

Good luck to say the least ! Keep us posted

 

[ray66v]

Since usually the manufacturer writes the warranty agreement, you generally have to either take what they offer you, or leave it.

I am not sure how much good a lawyer can do, until you reach the point of triggering a "lemon law", or some other sort of legal hurdle, such as the manufacturer refusing to abide by the warranty agreement.

If your looking for them to replace the entire transmission, then you should specifically refer to that as the "transmission assembly". Since, the "transmission housing" refers to the case that contains the transmission.

Hopefully they will make this right for you, one way or another.

TBN is a powerful weapon against them brushing you off, if you don't like the manufacturers offer, I would suggest you mention that you have lots of interested friends here.

 

[RADIUM]

as fate would have it today it's raining and 71F we took a few pictures about 45 minutes of mowing and the highest temperature was recorded inside the dipstick area into the oil 135 the outer case was around 127 near the PTO housing. The big NH states at 100 F air temperature the oil should not be higher than 180 F no one is arguing they know the pictures I've taken yesterday are not lies I told them as soon as the sun shines and were in the mid-80s I'm sure will hit those temperature again without fail the question is now how much damage has been done and what's causing it. My concern is three years down the road when the tractor starts leaking out of every seal who will be paying for it me, I don't think so I will make sure I document the case and the need of a lawyer was more to prove my point with documentation and have new Holland admit they will cover future failures due to this incident in a legal contract in writing. In the meantime I'm down the tractor they told me not to use it other than to take the temperatures again when the sun shines I have a lot of work I can do in the rain I cannot afford to be sitting 5 to 6 days waiting for the sun to shine, the damage has been done a few more days isn't going to change a thing I want the transmission and by that I mean an entire new case with everything inside including two axle sticking out waiting for tires bolted to the engine or I will be pursuing higher legal action my friend is a lawyer and told me New York State we have different rights and arbitration process will take time but I am not letting this one go. In all honesty this is one of my worst experience in equipment owning in 37 years , and the potential damage down the road is far too great to ignore . Realize one thing I am not yelling at this point at any of the parties involved however I know that's going to change as my tractor sits there and looks at me while I continue making payments and wait for their response I traded my TC 40 DA that didn't give me one problem in two years and I'd beat the **** out of her this just has me scratching my head this tractor shouldn't be doing this in one year of use well take care I'll let you know how things go.

 

[LoneCowboy]

forget talking to the dealer
talk to the NH rep. (the dealer will know who he/she is)

My first TC45 was such a piece of (*^% that I basically told them either take it back and give me my money back or give me another one.

they gave me another one.

Of course, that was after only a month (and it was a total lemon, this one has been pretty good). After a year plus, you're going to have problems, but still, forget the dealer, talk to the NH rep.

talk to NH themselves (they have a 1-800 customer service line) and explain it.

 

[MikeD74T]

I don't doubt you have a genuine problem but some of your points may be a little less than objective. Transmissions are rebuilt daily for all sorts of vehicles in local shops. Whether your dealer can do it I can't say but there's got to be someone other than the factory that can. I also agree that you are seeing excessive temps but parts are often heated to 400F for assembly without harming the parts strength. I agree high temps aren't good for seals, failed seals will lead to loss of fluids, which will ultimately lead to failed overheated parts. Unless you've seen smoke from the transmission you're not there yet. Be firm, but objective, in your demands.
Another approach, via a lawyer -who's probably not an experienced mechanic or engineer, might be to challenge their product safety design criteria. No parts that the operator could be routoinely exposed to should be hot enough to cause harm which your transmission may be.
Try driving any of your other vehicles a few miles & at the top of a large hill check your differential temperature. People often have no idea how hot things get. Again, nothing implied re: your knowledge or abilities.
Good luck. MikeD74T

 

[RADIUM]

Thanks for all the ideas I am dealing with a new Holland representative I'm not ready to put the boxing gloves on yet were still talking and trying to figure out what's causing the increased temperatures, Now Mike you make some very good points, but put yourself in a position of someone spending close to $35,000 only to be told that in one years time the machine has to be ripped apart and gone through to check seals and bearings for wear and damage if the machine were three years old it would be acceptable but not something this new were talking as the mechanic said "lots of parts". This machine was worked as a tractor should work it plowed close to 45 acres with a three bottom plow, land reclamation of 60 acres that's going up and down 20 acre fields with sometimes 1500 pounds plus of stones and tree trunks in the rock bucket now imagine how the planetary gears and bearing housings would get hot under these loads and add an increased fluid temperature which is now destroying the sheer protection of the oil when under these extreme conditions it was needed the most, for two months I was complaining about my exhaust blowing dust into my air filter I also told them the tractor case and lower lift arms were extremely hot to the point they would burn you ,I was told this was normal I should've known better sometimes I'm so stupid :-(. the mechanic told me on the side he would never in his life accept anything less than a complete rebuilt transmission or new not to mention the hydraulic pump. Now I don't want to play mechanical engineer I've only explain the small venue of damages that were discussed today by the mechanic and the rep. I'm sure we will come to some reasonable solution and if it needs to be rebuilt that's fine but it better be completely torn down right to the smallest part I told them I wanted a cab tractor while they're fixing mine I'll be damned if I'm going to ride the rest of the summer in this heat on some old clunker .

 

[Lone Oak Landscaping]

You're right RADIUM. Stick to your guns , I am behind you 100% what you are doing is the right thing and NH should do the same.
You obviously take pride in your equiptment and anyone who has followed your posts knows you take care of it well and rely on it for farming (exactly what it should be designed to do)

People like yourself sending messages to the factory reps protects us all from bieng ripped off.

Your complaints are valid and you have over looked the small and not so small stuff with much more patience and acceptence than most myself included.But.... E-NUF'S E-NUFF !


What is happening to your machine is valid, no doubt ,and if NH wants to keep customers they should improve quality controll and stand behind thier product. Because I am pretty sure TBN members will stand behind you on this one all the way to the judge if nesscary.

Good luck RADIUM ol' friend.

 

[two_bit_score]

This ain't making me want to run out and price a NH tractor.

 

[RADIUM]

Thanks John I appreciate the support. I don't think we're going to need judges and lawyers , thank God I don't have time for that crap. new Holland knows we have a serious problem, how to proceed is the question and we're all still a little unsure of the correct course of action. The rep was trying to feel me out and see if I wanted a bigger tractor I explained to him what I do with this unit a larger tractor would be useless for the applications at hand, however I told him I am looking to buy a second larger tractor exclusively for fieldwork but it probably won't be a new Holland ;-). To be fair They really help me with the last incident with the radiator so I can't complain, the new rep is much easier to deal with compared to that other ## # #### when I first got the tractor with its clutch problem apparently they fired him . Two bit score do me a favor try not to judge an entire company manufacturing ability by one tractor as I stated earlier I owned a TC 40 DA for nearly 2 1/2 years without one problem doing everything this tractor has done with the exception of plowing hydrostatic would not handle it, my brother owns TN 75 with 3600 hours without one complaint and also a TC 35 with 1440 hours and no problems. Mechanical failure is a fact of life I have owned a lot of different manufactured equipment over the years John Deere case international harvester Massey Ferguson they all have issues at some point, I grant you this tractor has had a few more in a row but it happens. As I've always said it's how they deal with you through these problems that keep you coming back and staying loyal I think they're getting the message especially with this new young guy who was willing to listen and make some compromises. So let's try keeping this thread moving in a positive direction and figure out what could be causing those high temperatures it's not the PTO slipping that was ruled out what could be the culprit. I realize in retrospect now I have to be careful what I say sometimes I'm just pissed off at that moment and I'm venting your have to forgive me I just don't want this thread to become I hate new Holland thanks again everybody take care