Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me *DELETED*

[Henro]

Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me

Well, I hate to admit it, but I did not read every word of this thread.

I would just advise anyone who thinks a sales tax of any kind is fair, to consider percentages.

Those with less spend all they have to maintain their existance.

Those with more spend proportionally less.

Tax on spending therefore is felt the most by those who have the least.

Is this the way you want things to be?

I don't... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[sendero]

Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me

Henro, we agree. And I'm biting my tongue to follow the board rules /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Dargo]

Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me

Without going into details, i.e. politics, I'll just have to not reply. It is obviously a complicated matter no matter how you slice it that cannot be fully discussed on a message board; nor does it belong on this board. I'll just say I think that if you are advocating that the tax system that we now have is not outdated, patched, and patched again, and broken; I'll just have to I respectfully disagree. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Now how about that tractor of yours? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me

<font color="red">
Well, I hate to admit it, but I did not read every word of this thread.

I would just advise anyone who thinks a sales tax of any kind is fair, to consider percentages.

Those with less spend all they have to maintain their existance.

Those with more spend proportionally less.

Tax on spending therefore is felt the most by those who have the least. </font>


Henro, just to be clear, I am not advocating the national sales tax, nor am I opposing it. But to also be fair, there will be a tax "pre-bate" that allows for tax free purchases by lower income individuals and families. It is simply a different way of having a lower tax rate on some individuals and a higher rate on others.

 

[OkeeDon]

Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me

<font color="blue"> "I think that if you are advocating that the tax system that we now have is not outdated, patched, and patched again, and broken; I'll just have to I respectfully disagree." </font>

Nope, you're correct, it is broken and patched and patched again. However, the same description applies as someone once applied to Democracy -- it's the worst system in the world, except for all the others. In the past, frugal folks were praised for patching things when they broke. We've gotten so used to throwing out the old and bringing in the new, even when we don't really know how the features will work, that we've started applying it to everything.

Simple facts are that the fairness issues raised by Henro have to be addressed, even by the most mean-spirited scrooge. That will start to complicate even the simplest scheme. Then, the special interests will kick in and make their case, and a lot of bad revisions will be passed before anyone figures out how the new system will work. Then, no matter how bad it gets, we'll be stuck with it, because once we turn away from the present system there will be no going back.

Better the devil we know than the one we don't. Besides, I'll bet that almost everyone on this forum benefits from the current system in one way or another; I'm far from a wealthy man, yet I've been taking advantage of many of the legal loopholes for years. I'm in the 10% bracket now; any time I see talk of 23% I know it will just cost me more! Luxury items will be hurt the most; some people will think twice before paying 23% additional for that RV or boat (it's also true that some won't care, but it's a simple fact that the $$$ won't go as far).

Finally, I don't think I trust the politicians to get it right, and I sure don't trust their motivations -- there's always a hidden agenda, regardless of the party.

 

[slowrev]

Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me

Bob,
With the tax pre-bate, it seems that nothing will really change...

I favor a flat rate tax with NO exemptions, unless the money has already been taxed, Ie social security. My thought is that ALL pay the same percentage of individual income tax whether you make 1,000 or 1,000,000.

Just my opinion though....
And like Henro, I did not read all of the posts in this thread, but finally had to join in with this one post only.

Ben

 

[Dargo]

Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me

slowrev, as I mentioned earlier in this thread (I think) I have a brother in law who pays no tax who favors a flat tax rate. He and his wife make over 30K a year and they get back more tax after their return than they ever paid in. He enjoys having the money, but he thinks a lot of people who are the first to demonstrate and claim to be "tax paying Americans", likely do not pay any taxes at all. All I intend to say is that I agree with my brother in law (no, that doesn't happen that often) in that it is a bad idea for 30% of the population getting a free ride on taxes.

On the personal level, I get up by 5am every morning and work 6 days a week. I've done so for decades. Why should I pay the tax for someone who sits around on their couch drinking beer and smoking cigarettes while watching their favorate show on their big screen TV every day, and then claim that if they go out and get a job they will make less money. They say that they will lose their "benefits" (read between the lines, welfare) if they go out and get a job. Yes, I'll readily admit that it makes my blood boil to think that I'm busting my but 90 hours a week to pay for this sort of person to exist on a free ticket. They also get free healthcare. Hospital collection agencies cannot claim any of their welfare; therefore since the hospitals have to treat them, they get better health care free than I do, and I pay $850 a month out of my pocket for crappy insurance with high deductibles and co-pays! In the name of "fairness", you tell me what is fair about that??

And, slowrev, this reply is not directed at you, I just relized that I hit "reply" after your post. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Oops. I think we agree on the issue.

 

[MicroPilot]

Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ....Those with less spend all they have to maintain their existance.

Those with more spend proportionally less.

Tax on spending therefore is felt the most by those who have the least....)</font>

True, but isn't this also true for the current system?

Think of it this way. I go and buy me a $10,000 Neon and pay $2,300 tax. Mr. Rich Guy goes and buys a $100,000 Jaguar and pays $23,000 in tax. Who paid more tax?

I would support the National Sales Tax (NST). I like the fact that I would get to see my ENTIRE paycheck on payday, and would get some control over how much tax I give to the government. If I spend less, I pay less taxes. This would make it easier for me to put a little in savings for big purchases (like tractors, or implements!).

The NST will also allow the people to be in more direct control of the tax rate. It will be way more obivous if the tax rate goes up, and you can be sure politicians that are responsible will have **** to pay at their next election.

Another expected feature is that states that choose to administer the NST get to keep a percentage as payment. This has the potential of LOWERING state taxes. After the rebates the effective tax rate is around %17.

The NTS legislation is a "tax neutral" proposal. This means the rate is designed to produce the same amount of revenue as the current tax code.

ALL NEW products and services purchased by consumers will be taxed. If you want to avoid paying tax on an item, you can buy used. Businesses will not be taxed on goods that go into manufacturing, or are for resale. The rational here is that the business would just pass the tax along in the form of higher prices.

 

[eee]

Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me

I am with you micro.
Everyone would be taxed the same %...the illegal immigrant,the underground economy,the foreign tourist..
No taxes on your saving(earnings).
You only get taxed if you spend your money.
Same taxed percent on everything from a loaf of bread up to a yacht.


I also think the congress and senators should rely on Social Security like the average person.That way if they depended on Social Security like we do/will it would be fixed. I had a letter about Congressmaen/Senators and Social Security that was sent to me and I posted it on the forum but Mr.Moderator deleted it,said it was too political. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[sendero]

Re: Income tax...do away with it....sounds good to me

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( I am with you micro.
Everyone would be taxed the same %...the illegal immigrant,the underground economy,the foreign tourist..
No taxes on your saving(earnings).
You only get taxed if you spend your money.
Same taxed percent on everything from a loaf of bread up to a yacht.</font>
)</font>

Sorry, that simply is a naive point of view IMHO /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Money will be shipped out of the country, people will find ways to sell goods that are not accounted for, every manner of cheating will be there just like it is now.