Informed opinions needed

[Oldchuck]

Don't know about the JD but I have an L4400. It's a fine machine and suits my purposes. Your $600 add on for the HST is considerably better than how much I paid extra. It is a worthwhile addition not only for loader work but, I think, for woods work. Tricky conditions, a lot of maneuvering and so forth. More HP may be better for plowing a field but I tried to balance HP with maneuverability. We have 300 acres of forest to deal with, no fields. The 4400 has the power to winch a pretty big log and the turn radius to carefully pick its way through difficult conditions, bad skid roads and so forth.

 

[greggh]

Darn, I wish you hadn't asked for informed opinions. I have one of course the same as everyone else.

I don't know but those prices seemed kind of high to me. But what do I know about the prices of tractors any more. I bought a new JD 5203 MFWD with 522 loader last year for $23,000.

You have a lot of property. Only 15 as pasture for mowing. I only have 15 acres total, but I mow and disk and plow over it and I am glad I bought a larger tractor.

The size of the tractor depends on what you plan on doing with it and how often. If you are only going to cut one tree a year for firewood, or mow the 15 acres once a year, then you don't need to consider a larger tractor. But if you plan on having more seat time, I think I would consider going larger. The final decision is yours. The tractors you are considering are good and will do the job.

Again this is just my opinion, and that is all you asked for. Oh sorry... you asked for informed opinions.... Since I haven't seen what your property looks like, I really can't give an informed opinion...

But whatever you decide, enjoy the hunt. Searching is the most fun.

 

[john_bud]

$2K is a lot for a 6-ft brush hog. I bought a Hawkline 6-ft hog last March for $1150 along with my new Mahindra 5525. I has a 50-hp gearbox and 1/4" thick steel deck. You're paying a lot for a green-yellow paint job.

And a toy poodle and a rottweiler are both dogs, but which one do you want guarding the family while you're out of town?

The Deere, Landpride, woods brushbull and bushog MD cutters are (IMHO) above the Hawkline in toughness / build quality. A 90 to 110 hp gear box, slip clutch are pretty standard on real MD cutters. The Hawk is listed as a HD cutter, but with a 50 hp gearbox, small stump jumper, flat top, etc that seems not to be the case. It's a decent cutter, but not in the same category. Still, for the price difference, I'd buy one if I didn't have stumps, rocks and 3-5" trees to contend with. You are paying for the cool paint, but that's not the only difference.

jb

 

[RobJ]

I am very nervous about going into debt right now, since I have none but my house, but I think prices will probably get much more expensive over the next two years. Locking in at 0% is virtually free money, and appealing from that standpoint.

"Free Money" is one of those interesting quotes. Just like "Sale" or 25% off" cost me something every time! To get this free money it's still going to cost you $366 for the next 5 years or $611 over the next 3.

A tractor is probably one thing you can still get good value in the used market. But I guess everyone wants to pay for a new one...except me of course.

Sweating over 50# more lifting capicity or 3 more PTO hp IMO is not the real issue. Give me a comfortable seat over those any time. Rarely does anyone here max out their tractor potential.

 

[Podunkadunk]

"Free Money" is one of those interesting quotes. Just like "Sale" or 25% off" cost me something every time! To get this free money it's still going to cost you $366 for the next 5 years or $611 over the next 3.

A tractor is probably one thing you can still get good value in the used market. But I guess everyone wants to pay for a new one...except me of course.

Sweating over 50# more lifting capicity or 3 more PTO hp IMO is not the real issue. Give me a comfortable seat over those any time. Rarely does anyone here max out their tractor potential.

A lot of wisdom in this post!

Podunk

 

[arrow]

Mike
The trouble with guys like you and me is that our over analyzation can as you say "make our heads hurt" which I have done to myself plenty of times. I'll give you a perspective from the way my head works which seems alot like your head. 1. If you never owned a tractor whether its gear or HST, you will get used to either . There are opinions and strong ones about how much preferable HST is to gear. These people probably have auto trannies in their cars so naturally they would have a bias against self shifting. I have done everything you mentioned with a gear driven tractor but my vehicle is a stick shift so I carry a bias as well. If you don't mind shifting anything, the JD will suit you just fine. If you are of the first camp, you'll like hst more. It is my opinion they are of decent size to do what you'll ask of them. Both tractors will do you just fine. Cross your fingers and hope yours doesn't break. That is all you can do as there are no guarantees about that sort of stuff to use as decision making devices as there are good and bad in anyone's line . As the first poster said. Sit on the both of them, your body and mind will tell you which one is for you. Forget about any subjective or objective information on either tractor as they are too close to mean anything. If you cannot decide based on the dealer satisfaction index because they are so close, then use your instinct and self preference. That is the only valid way to choose. In the end, no matter how we analyze stuff, none of it becomes very important in regard to decisions such as this once you own any of them and unfortunately, you don't find that out until ownwership. By the way, I'm going to get a little zen on you. You already know which one you want.

 

[Bird]

If you never owned a tractor whether its gear or HST, you will get used to either . There are opinions and strong ones about how much preferable HST is to gear. These people probably have auto trannies in their cars so naturally they would have a bias against self shifting. I have done everything you mentioned with a gear driven tractor but my vehicle is a stick shift so I carry a bias as well.

Yep, you're right. I've owned 2 Kubotas, both with HST and I loved it, especially with a front end loader. And yes, I have automatics in both my pickup and our minivan, ever since my wife wrecked (totalled) our last manual transmission car in 1999. I have a lot more time on tractors with manual transmissions than on the HST tractors, and of course they'll do the job; just a little slower maybe, a little more work, and, in my opinion, not quite as safely, especially for someone new to tractors. I've also owned at least 4 cars and one pickup with manual transmissions, as well as 4 motorcycles. And I drove manual transmission police sedans for 5 years before we got automatic transmissions. But you're right in that I "have a bias against self shifting" or any other kind of work if I can find an easier way.

Actually, I don't disagree with anything you said.

 

[arrow]

The long and the short of it Bird is that you gave Mike all the info he needed in your first post. Because I'm like him, I have to string things out because I'm so busy analyzing (its no wonder that word begins with "****") that my brain fails to make room for the clear cut. I guess it goes back to when I was logging analyzing everything that could kill me. At any rate, guys like me and Mike do what you did in your last post all the time. In the end we all get to the point we want sooner or later.

P.S. Bird:
You signed to Tractorbynet 2 years before I did. How the heck did you make 22 thousand five hundred posts more than me in that short time?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

The JD warranty you listed is correct. 2000 hours / 3 years.

Thats transmission only at 3 years. I did double check that on the website. Both companies are two years front to back, and 1 on implements. Thats pretty much industry standard, anyone offering more is doing it with lots of fine print.

 

[mike5.56]

Wow! Thanks for all of the input. I've decided on the pumpkin colored tractor. After crawling all over both, the Kubota has quite a few things that are just...nicer. The spiral bevel gear FWD; the front driveshaft tucked into the oil pan, vice exposed; plus, the seat and operators console fit my 6'4" 250 pound frame much better. Now it's just a matter of horsepower. I'm leaning strongly toward the L4400, because I figure if I need the power, it'll be there. The L3400 is about $4200 less expensive though, and that's a consideration.

As to the new v. used question, yes there are numerous used tractors for sale, but I'm no expert on judging how well the machine has been maintained etc. I've done maintenance on my diesel trucks, and on my other vehicles, but how someone has maintained their equipment is a large question mark that I don't have the expertise to judge.

I've always bought new automobiles and trucks, and then kept the vehicles for 10+ years making sure that they're well maintained, and keeping the documents for resale. In this case, there won't be another tractor in my lifetime, at least not for working the land, so making payments for 5 years, although painful, is an easier pill to swallow than trashing my savings for a used tractor that will cost almost as much. I peruse tractorhouse.com quite a bit, and most of the newer CUTs seem to hold their value very well-or else the owners are very proud of them. The one's under $12K seem to be pretty well used.

As to the "free money" line, interest rates are by definition the cost of money. Borrowing at 0% when inflation is officially at 6.5% is actually better than free. Kubota is losing on the money because it's getting paid back in currency of less value over the length of the loan.

Anyway, thanks again for all the input, it has been very helpful.

 

[RobJ]

As to the new v. used question, yes there are numerous used tractors for sale, but I'm no expert on judging how well the machine has been maintained etc. I've done maintenance on my diesel trucks, and on my other vehicles, but how someone has maintained their equipment is a large question mark that I don't have the expertise to judge.

I've always bought new automobiles and trucks, and then kept the vehicles for 10+ years making sure that they're well maintained, and keeping the documents for resale. In this case, there won't be another tractor in my lifetime, at least not for working the land, so making payments for 5 years, although painful, is an easier pill to swallow than trashing my savings for a used tractor that will cost almost as much. I peruse tractorhouse.com quite a bit, and most of the newer CUTs seem to hold their value very well-or else the owners are very proud of them. The one's under $12K seem to be pretty well used.

As to the "free money" line, interest rates are by definition the cost of money. Borrowing at 0% when inflation is officially at 6.5% is actually better than free. Kubota is losing on the money because it's getting paid back in currency of less value over the length of the loan.

Anyway, thanks again for all the input, it has been very helpful.

If you are looking used, ask if they are a TBN member. If yes then the tractor has been lightly used and well cared for!! Otherwise you have to be patient. 4-5 months for me but for $5k I got the tractor, FM and RC. about 1200 hours 6 years old.

Sounds like you are use to buying new and there is nothing wrong with that at all, wis I could. Nothing like being the first to use something. I buy 1-3 year old cars and still keep them 9-10 years.

And that was me with the free money line.. I guess inflation is a lot higher than I thought, but I think you missed my point, not a biggie. U.S. Inflation Rate Forecast

Good luck and post some pics when you take delivery!!! we love pics here!

Rob

 

[Steve_Miller]

The long and the short of it Bird is that you gave Mike all the info he needed in your first post. Because I'm like him, I have to string things out because I'm so busy analyzing (its no wonder that word begins with "****") that my brain fails to make room for the clear cut. I guess it goes back to when I was logging analyzing everything that could kill me. At any rate, guys like me and Mike do what you did in your last post all the time. In the end we all get to the point we want sooner or later.

P.S. Bird:
You signed to Tractorbynet 2 years before I did. How the heck did you make 22 thousand five hundred posts more than me in that short time?

Bird retired completely from the garden tractoring a while back and now is devoted to giving us all of his valuable wisdom whenever and wherever we need it. You could probably call him one of the seven wonders of TBN. I always enjoy his posts.

Steve

 

[mike5.56]

RobJ,
The inflation rate is much greater than most are aware, until they go to pay for food or fuel. This is one of my big complaints with our gov-they use statistical tricks to make the inflation rate look smaller. They do this to make the Gross Domestic Product look better, and because it reduces the COLA increase for Social Security and Military retirements.

The actual tricks are geometric averaging, substitution, and hedonic weighting. These make the numbers smaller than they would be if the older more honest techniques were still used. That and using the "core" inflation stats derived by subtracting food and fuel from the "headline" number. Core is the one most quoted by the financial and news media.

If you want a look at what real inflation rates are, check out www.shadowstats.com. It is a website run by an economist named John Williams, and he calculates economic data the way it was done prior to 1995. It is an eye opener. The actual CPI is just shy of 9% to date.

Sorry about boring you with economic statistical data, but when you're borrowing money, it makes sense to know the playing field.

 

[RobJ]

Sorry about boring you with economic statistical data, but when you're borrowing money, it makes sense to know the playing field.

Not a problem, thanks for the info.

 

[burkhalterbenjamin]

If the loader is made by Kabota I would get the Kabota. Make sure it has Ag tires. Industrial tires wont get you far if it is wet. I found out from a friend who works for KB that the loader is idiot proofed for digging. With the arms in the full down position the bucket wont tilt down more than 7% to keep you from overloading the arms. I tired it on my uncles 45 hp and it was true. lift the arms a 1/4" and the bucket will go full tilt, but not in the full diging position.

 

[blackhawkip]

I hope my opinion helps. I owned a Kubota L3400 DT and was very impressed with the quality and build. I ended up selling the tractor since I purchased a 28 acre small farm and needed a bigger tractor. I looked both at the John Deere and the Kubota and went with the Kubota but with the HST instead of the DT. IT WAS THE BEST MONEY I SPENT IN THE PURCHASE!!!!
That $600 price tag only hurts once, but EVERY time you operate that DT you will wish you had gone with the HST.

My .02 worth

best of luck

PS The Kubota is a better built tractor. It is not a Chevy or Ford thing and I am not biased, just a consumer interested in getting the most for my $.

 

[Blee25]

PS The Kubota is a better built tractor. It is not a Chevy or Ford thing and I am not biased, just a consumer interested in getting the most for my $.

I hope you are refering specifically to the 4005 vs the L4400 and Kubota vs John Deere in general, even then that is as much opinion as chevy vs ford. I tend to think the L2800-L4400 is better designed then Deere's economy compact design but others would disagree.

 

[jinman]

Bird retired completely from the garden tractoring a while back and now is devoted to giving us all of his valuable wisdom whenever and wherever we need it. You could probably call him one of the seven wonders of TBN. I always enjoy his posts.

Steve

I agree with you on Bird, but what are the remaining six wonders?

BTW, Mike, I'm in the "as big as you can go and HST" camp. I think you will find plenty of times that you'll want a bigger tractor even than the L4400. I think you've made the right decision to go with the bigger Kubota.

 

[Bird]

what are the remaining six wonders?

Don't answer that, Steve. I shudder to think what I might be compared to.