Oil & Fuel Injector trouble CK 30

[Steve_Miller]

Well my time was up yesterday my CK 30 injector pump went. Talked to a Kioti mechanic and found a local injector repair shop although I ended repairing using the thread at the top of this forum. The thread is pretty thorough and explained a lot. It took me about 6 1/2 hours from start to finish but the first hour was cleaning. At first I didn’t remove the oil filler cap at their old manual stop or the solenoid or the return plunger spring at the end, I had to remove these later. When I got it all back together and tried bleeding the injectors to no avail. Tried for roughly 10-15 mins with no results, so i removed the manual stop. return plunger and the oil filler cap. Come to find out the rack was sticking closed not allowing fuel to the injectors (once I figured out how everything worked). Had to push the rack open and closed several times with my finger, appeared to be jamming at the solenoid end where it goes through a Teflon sleeve. Thought I put something together wrong, so i pushed the rack open and cranked half dozen times and fuel started to bleed around the cracked injector nuts, Tightened them back up and it took off but sputtered and died. Pushed the rack open again and it started again, kept sticking my finger in to push the rack open each time it started to die fighting the governor as it was trying to throttle it back. After about five or six times it started to work fine. From what I could tell it was just a lack of lubrication until some oil/diesel got pumped up and around the rack gears and sleeve assembly. Only other issue I had was the middle injector line at the pump was painted/corroded so bad that the flare nut wouldn't let go and started to turn the fitting out of the block. The fittings are so close together that you can't get a wrench on the center one (of course it would be that one), tried jamming a pair of needle nose pliers between the two fittings and after several attempts got it to break free. Tighten that back up with a deep socket once I had all the lines off. There was only one gear damaged despite all the pictures I posted.

If I think of anything else I will update.

Steve

 

[DieselBound]

When I got it all back together and tried bleeding the injectors to no avail. Update more later.

Could you expound on that/this?

I gather you're not getting fuel to the injectors?

Bleeding the injectors is minor, and nearly irrelevant, when an IP has been opened up and emptied. The IP is going to be full of air, and purging air out of an IP is a bit of a battle, often best facilitated by using a vacuum pump to pull fuel through it (fuel return side) or to use an IV-drip; one can, of course, do a LOT of cranking, but it'll be a LOT and one needs to be mindful of overheating the starter.

Of course, I'm being optimistic in that I'm hoping it's just an air issue and not an assembly problem (I'm impressed with anyone who opens up and puts back together an IP).

 

[Steve_Miller]

Could you expound on that/this?

I gather you're not getting fuel to the injectors?

Bleeding the injectors is minor, and nearly irrelevant, when an IP has been opened up and emptied. The IP is going to be full of air, and purging air out of an IP is a bit of a battle, often best facilitated by using a vacuum pump to pull fuel through it (fuel return side) or to use an IV-drip; one can, of course, do a LOT of cranking, but it'll be a LOT and one needs to be mindful of overheating the starter.

Of course, I'm being optimistic in that I'm hoping it's just an air issue and not an assembly problem (I'm impressed with anyone who opens up and puts back together an IP).

updated. I was nervous going into this but very relieved and confident when she fired up.

Steve

 

[DieselBound]

Awesome!

 

[Billrog]

You did good Steve :thumbsup:

 

[Fuggley]

Nice work Steve!
Almost 50 CK owners have logged the problem on the group spreadsheet. Kioti Corp sourced a defective IP and stuck CK owners with it... sad!

 

[xcgreene]

Thank you for taking the time to put up these pictures, its a great reference.

 

[powerscol]

Is there a year range that this issue exists. I have a Bobcat and am wondering if it is when, not if it will happen to me

Great information here - Thanks

 

[coobie]

How many hours on your tractor when the failure occurred ?

 

[DK35vince]

Is there a year range that this issue exists. I have a Bobcat and am wondering if it is when, not if it will happen to me

Great information here - Thanks

2005-2008 appeared to be the problem years with injector pumps

 

[lakngulf]

2005-2008 appeared to be the problem years with injector pumps

That hits me squarely. But I am in the dark. What are the symptoms of the problem?

 

[Threepoint]

Great work, Steve!

 

[ritcheyvs]

You can get much background from the link in the sticky post at the top of this list.

Steve's data is the the top item in the linked table. In his case he had about 700 hours. The problem occurs in some 2005-2008 models with the stop solenoid on the front of the engine. Different models converted to this configuration at different times.

The problem is the new style solenoid can eventually strip a tooth off one of the gears (control sleeves) in the injection pump and the broken tooth can jam the injection pump rack, typically in the full off position but sometimes in a high power position.

Kioti does not stock IP internal parts so their answer is to replace the IP, which is costly. Since then, Kioti owners have found several commercial and DIY methods of replacing the damaged IP parts, quite inexpensively.

We know of quite a few instances of this problem (see table) but we don't know how many more failures occurred (not reported on TBN) and we don't know how many tractors never had a problem.

The good news is that most of the common failure modes for these older CK/DK machines are well understood and TBN folks are happy to advise. The bad news is that most problem descriptions are incomplete or misleading so it takes a few iterations to converge on the right fix.

 

[lakngulf]

You can get much background from the link in the sticky post at the top of this list.

Steve's data is the the top item in the linked table. In his case he had about 700 hours. The problem occurs in some 2005-2008 models with the stop solenoid on the front of the engine. Different models converted to this configuration at different times.

The problem is the new style solenoid can eventually strip a tooth off one of the gears (control sleeves) in the injection pump and the broken tooth can jam the injection pump rack, typically in the full off position but sometimes in a high power position.

Kioti does not stock IP internal parts so their answer is to replace the IP, which is costly. Since then, Kioti owners have found several commercial and DIY methods of replacing the damaged IP parts, quite inexpensively.

We know of quite a few instances of this problem (see table) but we don't know how many more failures occurred (not reported on TBN) and we don't know how many tractors never had a problem.

The good news is that most of the common failure modes for these older CK/DK machines are well understood and TBN folks are happy to advise. The bad news is that most problem descriptions are incomplete or misleading so it takes a few iterations to converge on the right fix.

Thanks. I have 1529 hours on my 2006 CK30 so got my fingers crossed.

 

[Steve_Miller]

Thanks to Tractorbynet and all of the contributors or I would have had less to spend on Christmas. Keep posting as it is a wonderful source of information. Sorry for the late reply as I don't check in as often as I did since retiring. I don't know why that is though.

Steve
P.S. Been -10 - 20 degrees Celsius the last week or so but no snow.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Thanks. I have 1529 hours on my 2006 CK30 so got my fingers crossed.

There are no guarantees and we have no data on problem-free machines; but I suspect most of the "vulnerable" 2005-2008 CK/DK tractors will never see this problem.

The good news is we now know this is a DIY repair for a moderately-skilled owner and replacement parts are well under $100, if they are even needed (some control sleeves can simply be rotated 180 degrees to restore function). Also, most IP repairs require the IP to be re-calibrated, which only a pro can do. But the control sleeves (aka gears) can be replaced without re-calibrating if you are careful to put all parts back where they came from. For example plunger 1, sleeve 1, and tappet 1 go back in position 1.