Installed Hydro Transmission Cooler On Zero Turn & Results

[Carl_NH]

Installed a B&M 70255 Transmission cooler on my Ferris IS2000 25/52 today. Unit has 60 houes total on it in two years (residential use). I was concerned about the operatinig temp 180* @ 75* ambient and the fact the Ferris has added these to the IS3100 this year (and all bigger machines IS5100 series.

I have the Hydrogear 12CC pumps and Parker wheel motors. Also I tow a Trac Vac in the fall for leaf collection which puts more strain on the system. The oil on my system was dark, smelled like roasted nuts so I R&R the filter and replaced with new 15-50 Mobil 1 (1.75 qts) last weekend.

Ordered the B&M 70255 cooler this week and installed today and now the Hydro temps are 138-140 @ 75* ambient temp and the oil is clear now (no bubbles) now. Which in my estimation is a good thing..

Attached are some pics of installation, note I raised the resevior tank to the top position to clear the engine by 3" and allow the cooler oil level not exceed the highest point in the tank.

Everythiing works great and a 40* reduction in fluid temp from 180 to 140 can only be good for the pumps and motors.

Carl

 

[Bob77064]

Good job and the air coming out of the engine will help cool it.

 

[RickB]

Here's an oil cooler installed based on a recognized and measured need. The cooler will certainly prove to be beneficial over time based on the reported oil condition prior to the install.

Good move!

 

[Carl_NH]

Thanks Rick & Bob,

I spoke to Ferris about the oil color - looked like used engine oil, and they explained the aluminum pumps and motors are what discolor the fluid not the temperature.

The oil smell they attributed to towing the trac vac even tho we dont have any hills to speak of. They said the wheel motors wernt designed to pull heavy loads.

The reason they put these on the bigger machines is the weight - then they said, well some operators are heavy too so it couldnt hurt the machine only help it.. So with me @ 250 it was either lose some Lbs or do this retrofit.

 

[RickB]

Thanks Rick & Bob,

I spoke to Ferris about the oil color - looked like used engine oil, and they explained the aluminum pumps and motors are what discolor the fluid not the temperature.

The oil smell they attributed to towing the trac vac even tho we dont have any hills to speak of.

The two statements are contradictory. Adding the cooler was a good move. If the oil looked burnt and smelled burnt, it probably was burnt.

 

[Carl_NH]

Rick B,

I understand - Ferris service said the aluminum in the pumps and motors (aluminum fines? maybe) are what cause the darker color.

I tend to agree, higher temps was my thought as well. The oil wasnt a bad burnt smell but enough that my sniffer said this oil needs to go - also I was getting some white condensation around the fill port after mowing - meaning moisture was cooking out of the oil. Those two things led me to changing the filter and most of the oil.

Carl

 

[dgeesaman]

Hi Carl,

Thanks for sharing this. Just curious how your mower was holding up.

I have a 3100z showing some fine metal shavings in the reservoir and I'm thinking about rebuilding the pumps and flushing all of the lines. This would be an interesting addition and I'm considering plumbing it on the return line between the hydros and the reservoir.

Thanks,

David

 

[Carl_NH]

David

It's holding up great - 200 hours now - no smell in the oil and the new 2000 and 3000 series have a cooler now so adding this should help

The fines in the tank will be caught in the filter so I would change the filter and oil when you add the cooler which is what I did

I used a transmission filter and for your larger machine I would maybe go up to a larger unit for higher flows your unit has

Send some pics if you do this too

Carl

 

[dgeesaman]

Well I dug around and it appears that two years after mine was made, they added an oil cooler and kept everything else the same. So I now know the arrangement and will probably buy that cooler and add it myself.

The only question is how/where they located the cooler, but I suspect anywhere will work.

 

[SARG]

I just obtained a IS1500 from a friend that moved to Texas. This concept looks like a good one. I'll have to check the machine to see if the cooler could be mounted in a good location. The 1500 has the hydraulic fluid reserve mounted on the side of the machine above & slightly behind the rear tire and adjacent to the 23hp engine.

I notice on Amazon that B&M makes a variety of different coolers in different BTUs and sizes.

Is it best to mount the largest that will fit ?

 

[Carl_NH]

David

They mounted the cooler above the motor with some shrouding from the pics I have seen - if you go on the Ferris web site you can find it on !S3000 and maybe some of the 2000 series too.

 

[Carl_NH]

I just obtained a IS1500 from a friend that moved to Texas. This concept looks like a good one. I'll have to check the machine to see if the cooler could be mounted in a good location. The 1500 has the hydraulic fluid reserve mounted on the side of the machine above & slightly behind the rear tire and adjacent to the 23hp engine.

I notice on Amazon that B&M makes a variety of different coolers in different BTUs and sizes.

Is it best to mount the largest that will fit ?

I used the 70255 with the 3/8 input ports, 12"x8" and 3/4" inch thick. You could go a bit wider 12x10 but I wanted to mount above the intake of the fan on the motor and leave room for air for the engine too.

Another option is to mount it on top of the cooling fans for the hydro pumps but that always collects leaves and dust more so than above the engine fan.

The engine fan shroud does have bolts too you could mount a standoff from that. I know what you mean by having the tank on the side, but that should not be an issue as you take the output line (from the pumps to the tank) and route to the cooler, then the output of the cooler back to the tank.

David - On the IS3000 there may be two return lines to the tank? If so a bigger cooler input port may be advised (1/2").

 

[Saril]

David

They mounted the cooler above the motor with some shrouding from the pics I have seen - if you go on the Ferris web site you can find it on !S3000 and maybe some of the 2000 series too.

Hello,

Hope this thread is still alive. I am very interested in the modification you have made! Looks awesome and very professional. Do you still feel this was a good move, i.e., would you recommend now that you have had lots of time evaluating?

My hydro temps get as high as 225 F in the summer, ambient temp around 85-90 F. I just replaced the Parker 10cc pump with a HydroGear and also replaced the wheel motor on a 2006 Dixon Kodiac - both on right side. With the ambient temp at 65 F, I was getting temps around 200 F which is a bit high, I think. Your post has me intrigued and I want to pursue if you still recommend.

I measure temp with an ifrared thermometer pointed at the top of the hydro pump (charge pump cover) which also matches the temp of the fluid in the tank, so I'm assuming this is an accurate method.
Any comments appreciated and welcome - thanks!

 

[Carl_NH]

Hello,

YEs this is still alive - and yes I suggest if you have high temps this will drop by 40* - the oil in my opinion should not get above 200*. So you should be able to set up something similar - mine has been fine for over 4 years and I have 280 hours on it now - I am not mowing commercially just my own lawn.

 

[Saril]

Hello,

YEs this is still alive - and yes I suggest if you have high temps this will drop by 40* - the oil in my opinion should not get above 200*. So you should be able to set up something similar - mine has been fine for over 4 years and I have 280 hours on it now - I am not mowing commercially just my own lawn.

This is great news - thanks for the quick response! I hope you don't mind a few questions:

How and where do you measure your hydro temps? I've heard some say to measure the outside of the hydro oil filter; however, for me it was not the same as the oil in the tank and my filter screws to the side of the tank. The oil filter reading was about 40 F lower. The oil in tank measured the same as top of charge pump.

You mentioned air bubbles - if I have a small hose leak on the input side would that put air into the system and the introduced air would be why the temps are high? What I'm asking is how do I make sure I'm not masking another problem vs. improving the original design. It appears that you improved your design.

If I had a leak anywhere in the hydro system (low pressure side), intake, return, etc., could I assume that I would see some fluid? In particular, would a small leak on the input side to pumps suck air and not leak oil?

If you were to perform this upgrade again, would you still recommend the B&M 70255?

I have 2 10cc pumps and the case drains are combined into a single hose back to the tank. Would I put the cooler between the case drain attached to the tank?

Current: ========return line from combined case drains======[] Hydro tank
Your mod: ========return line from combined case drains==B&M 70255===[] Hydro tank

Does hydro cooler have to be mounted lower than the hydro tank?

Sorry for all the questions; I would really appreciate your opinion if you have the time.
Cheers

 

[Industrial Toys]

I thought case drains did not serve a function in the operation of the motors. I don't know how to express that. Maybe I am wrong. I thought the motor does not have to be that sealed and the case drain was a simple containment facility that puts oil safely back in the tank and not on the ground.

 

[Saril]

I thought case drains did not serve a function in the operation of the motors. I don't know how to express that. Maybe I am wrong. I thought the motor does not have to be that sealed and the case drain was a simple containment facility that puts oil safely back in the tank and not on the ground.

I am not an expert and may have stated the question poorly. Just to be clear, I'm talking specifically about the case drain on a P Series Hydro-Gear Hydrostatic Pump used on a ZTR motor. From the service manual:

A fixed displacement gerotor charge pump is
provided in P Series Pumps. Oil from an external
reservoir and filter is pumped into the closed loop
by a charge pump. Fluid not required to replenish
the closed loop flows either into the pump housing
through a cooling orifice, or back to the charge pump
inlet through the charge pressure relief valve.
During the operation of the pump, fluid is "lost" from
the hydraulic loop through leak paths designed into
the product for lubrication and cooling purposes
(around pistons, under the rotating cylinder block, etc.).
This "lost" fluid returns to the reservoir through
the case drain. This fluid must be made
up in the loop. The charge pump makes up this fluid loss.

My understanding is that the case drain is the low pressure fluid return line (from the pump) going back to the hydro tank which then passes the fluid through a filter back to the charge pump. This is not the closed high pressure loop between the pump and wheel motor.

I was assuming that the case drain return line would be the best place to "intercept" the hot oil and cool it - before it is returned to the tank. I could be wrong.
If this is not the case, please advise, as I'm still learning and appreciate the input.

 

[aczlan]

A case drain should see a small percentage (5-10%?) of the fluid that went through the wheel motor. If it were me, I would put the hydraulic cooler inline between the valve and the tank.
If you dont have that option (ie: that goes right back to the pump), I would just put in in the case drain line.

Aaron Z

 

[Industrial Toys]

I think I was correct in my assumptions. Case drain would not be my first choice for a cooler. Maybe someone figured that since the leaking oil is designed to cool and lubricate the motor, cooling that system even more is the way to go.

 

[aczlan]

Re: Installed Hydro Transmission Cooler On Zero Turn & Results

I think I was correct in my assumptions. Case drain would not be my first choice for a cooler. Maybe someone figured that since the leaking oil is designed to cool and lubricate the motor, cooling that system even more is the way to go.

In some cases, the pump and the motor are all one piece and the only place where fluid exits the system is from the case drain.

Then the case drain goes into the tank and it pulls make up fluid out of the tank.

If that is the case here, the case drain or the suction line out of the tank are the only options for a add on cooler.

I would prefer to use the case train rather than the suction line for a cooler as it is easier to tell if it is leaking fluid out then if it is sucking air in.

Aaron Z