Buying Advice Intro and Advice

[joleat]

Intro and advice... I'm providing one and asking for the other. I'm sorry this is such a long first post.

Back in May, I purchased a house on ~7 acres. Much of the property is wooded and contains mature walnut, poplar, chestnut and oak. I'm sure there are other varieties, but I'm no expert. Only around 3 acres of the property is truly "flat". I say "flat" because I'm located in central West Virginia where most of the terrain is at least considered hilly by most. I'm leaning toward buying a dedicated riding mower, so one of the tractor models I'm considering doesn't even have a mid-PTO.

My plans include regrading the driveway (potentially some of the side yard if a compact/subcompact is up for the challenge), replacing an aging 15"x40' culvert pipe, clearing some of the safely accessible wooded property, erosion control (the property has two small creeks and one is quickly eroding the bank behind a storage shed. Gabion cages will be necessary.), and other general cleanup and property improvements I will undoubtedly think of in the future.

My wife and I plan to be at this house for at least the next 30 years, so buying a tractor is absolutely part of the plan. The purchase probably won't take place until early Spring 2019, so I'm in the information gathering stage at the moment. We'd like to stay at or under $25,000 and the initial purchase must include the FEL, BH, box blade and landscape rake. This will be our first tractor and we want to measure twice and cut once.




With some internet and limited in-person research, I "think" I've narrowed my choices to the following:

MF GC1720 - Hydro (2-range) - 25HP/19.6PTO - DL95 FEL 920lbs BO/580lbs full-height - Backhoe - Box Blade - Landscape Rake - $18,900
MF 1726E - Gear (3-range) - 24HP/20.4PTO - L105E FEL 1450lbs BO/830lbs full-height - Backhoe - Box Blade - Landscape Rake - $28,000
MF 1726E - Hydro (3-range) - 24HP/20.4PTO - L105E FEL 1450lbs BO/830lbs full-height - Backhoe - Box Blade - Landscape Rake - $29,200
JD 1025R - Hydro (2-range) - 23.9HP/18PTO - 120R FEL 1320lbs BO/520lbs full-height - Backhoe - Box Blade - Landscape Rake - $20,600
JD 2025R - Hydro (2-range) - 23.9HP/18PTO - 120R FEL 1320lbs BO/520lbs full-height - Backhoe - Box Blade - Landscape Rake - $23,900

The Massey dealer sold County Line implements, so I'm assuming the box blade and landscape rake are County Line products. He quoted $900 each on those units and they are included in the prices listed above. However, he did say he thought his total price was 5-10% higher than what he could actually sell it for. His daughter handles the official numbers, but was unavailable at the time I was there. I also made it clear I was only familiarizing myself with the Massey lineup and not ready for an immediate purchase.

The JD models include Frontier implements. Both are listed on the paperwork as standard units and are priced at $695 each. Again, the prices listed above are inclusive of the implements.

All prices provided are prior to any negotiation.




Now, on to my impressions:

I've driven a GC1705 and didn't care for the way I sat on it. It wasn't uncomfortable, but I felt like I sat "on top". In and of itself, this isn't a deal breaker and it's hard to deny the value in the GC-series.

On the same day I drove the GC, I also drove a 1726E with a gear transmission. Having always mowed with a gear lawn mower, this felt really natural in comparison to the hydrostatic on the GC. I realize there are some advantages to the hydrostatic. As far as the 1726E goes, I also liked the size of the tractor and the fact that the backhoe had a dedicated seat.

I've not driven either of the JDs, but I have sat on a 1025R. Despite being a subcompact, it felt larger than the GC. I felt like I sat "in the seat" instead of "on top" like with the GC. The 2018 1025R is paired with an updated backhoe that includes a dedicated seat, so that is also a positive. The FEL joystick on the 1025R was located on the fender and felt very natural with my elbow on the armrest.

I have no experience with the 2025R.




With all that said, I'm really looking for insight from folks who have owned and worked these or similar tractors. Tell me about your experience with sub-compact and compact tractors. Did you buy one and wish you bought the other? What are the other points I should consider? For the tasks I outlined, would there be a significant advantage or disadvantage with the 1726E? Please share any information you think I or others will find helpful.




Other notes:

Two family members have Kubota BX-series tractors. They are fine tractors, but I don't care for the pedal. The nearest dealer is also inconvenient.

I've seen a few new Mahindras in person and I have concerns about their quality control.

The only other somewhat local dealer is a Rural King. I'm not sure of the brand they carry, but I place a lot of value on dealerships who have service departments with trained technicians, parts inventories, etc.

I do not recall any Kioti or LS dealers within a decent driving distance.

 

[jeff9366]

My wife and I plan to be at this house for the next 30 years, so buying a tractor is absolutely part of the plan.
This will be our first tractor and we want to measure twice and cut once.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor chassis weight is more important for most tractor operations than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used. The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to list tractor applications first, then determine bare tractor weight needed to safely accomplish your tasks.

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, bare tractor weight must increase 50% before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres. Subcompact and compact tractors under 3,000 pounds will enter a residential garage with typical 84" door height.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is generally greater than depreciation on a tractor.



Every tractor brand includes a model in the 2,600 pound to 2,900 pound (bare tractor) range with 100 cubic inch/24 horsepower engine. Tractors under 19 kW ( 19 KW = 25.4794-horsepower) engine output are presently exempt from stringent Tier IV emission controls which rapidly increase a tractor's cost above the 19 kW power demarcation.

In Kubota's model lineup this is the Model L2501.



VIDEOS (3): Kubota Standard L-Series. L251 L331 L391 L471 features and operation. - YouTube

Proper use of a Hydrostatic pedal - TMT - YouTube

Kubota Standard L Series L843 Telescopic Stabilizer kit (overview and install) - YouTube

 

[jeff9366]

Besides enough tractor weight, my minimals would be 12" of ground clearance for woods work and a three-range HST transmission. Telescoping Three Point Hitch stabilizers would be my next "want".

Generally speaking Box Blades do not cut very well with less that 100 pounds weight per foot of width. The soils I have seen in WV are tough.

Box Blade weight is important as counterbalance to FEL loads when the Backhoe is off. If your rear tires are filled with liquid, 125 pounds per foot of width is about right for counterbalance to FEL loads. If rear tires are filled with air, 150 pounds per foot of width is about right for counterbalance. (For hill work you will likely opt for liquid filled rear tires.)

I have a Ratchet Rake bucket attachment and an everythingattachments.com Landscape Rake. I find the $350 Ratchet Rake far more useful than the $1,200 Landscape Rake with gauge wheels, especially in woods work. The Ratchet Rake is on my bucket at least five times more hours than the Landscape Rake is on the Three Point Hitch.
VIDEO: RATCHET RAKE GRADING - YouTube

VENDER: Ratchet Rake, LLC - Tractor attachment, Bucket attachment, Loader, Landscape rake, Brush remover, York Rake, Harley Rake, Rock Rake, Tractor rake attachment, tractor implement


Rural King tractors are made by TYM of Korea. TYM also makes the lighter tractors sold under the Mahindra brand.


When you design your garage spec a door tall enough so tractor will enter with ROPS erect. I get irritated lifting the ROPS, bolting it locked, then the reverse every garage exit/entry.

 

[Rustyiron]

Intro and advice...
Other notes:

Two family members have Kubota BX-series tractors. They are fine tractors, but I don't care for the pedal. The nearest dealer is also inconvenient.


I do not recall any Kioti or LS dealers within a decent driving distance.

Welcome to TBN joleat, what's your definition of "inconvenient" in terms of eliminating several color (tractor) choices in a $25k+ long term investment?
I/we will give all sorts of free advice here, jeff9366 always has great points and advice. The best I can say is don't rush in, read a bunch here about the good & bad stories and tractor experiences and in general, bigger is better and that might mean also having a cheap lawn tractor on hand for simple grass cutting.

 

[majorwager]

An excellent thread for a first time buyer, someone in the Mountains of VA.
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/mahindra-owning-operating/398161-mahindra-max-26xl-hst-new.html


Post 51 from this additional thread is interesting, it is from folks in West Virginia, with similar terrain.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...-looking-second-6.html?highlight=#post5214884

the post text below:

Re: lifting abilty in compacts- looking for a second smaller tractor
Hey I haven't updated this thread so I wanted to, and to thank everyone for their input. While I have nothing bad to say about the Mahindra we looked at, we are going with the rural king hs 37 with a loader and cab. The deciding factor was that it could take the same sized backhoe as we have with our much smaller Massey, and unlike the Massey it isn't a beast to switch out. We are going to sell our smaller Massey to help offset costs, and when we do we will get the backhoe to go with it. The smaller mahindra while it can put out rounds just fine, can only take a smaller backhoe, and money wise, you just get much more tractor for the money with RK. I know they are new, but the dealer is only a hour away and I can only say very kind things about them to this point. They have answered all my questions and I feel very confident they will stand behind what they sell. Now I can't speak for all rural kings, but the Parkersburg store I have dealt with have been great and Nathan esp has worked with us and been very honest. He also hasn't pushed us to get any certain tractor, but really wants us to get what is appropriate for our situation. He clearly explained the benefits and limitations of hs and shuttle shift, which was great. I'll post how the tractor works out in the rural king forum after we pick up our tractor. And yes we will have pictures Having two tractors able to put out rounds gives me peace of mind .Cause as you know, if you have a plan b you never need it, if you don't, and something happens, and it will...you are well, you know.. and hopefully if nothing happens , I can just use my little one and stay dry and warm in the winter feedings and in the summer I can help now the flats and the bunny slopes. Lol.

 

[Tractorable]

Delving into the tractor world for the first time is complicated. When I first began my research I was astonished to learn that you can no longer buy an American made compact tractor.

There are really only two main players in the game: Japan and Korea. In addition to that there’s a lot of rebranding and trade names out there so it takes a good bit of research to determine exactly what it is you’re looking at. Also, some Korean makes use Japanese engines.

Japanese tractors: Kubota, Yanmar, Iseki (Massey Ferguson)

Korean tractors: LS, Kioti (Daedong), Branson (Kukje), TYM (RK)

Indian: Mahindra

** Not sure where John Deere tractor chassis’ are made but they use Japanese Yanmar engines **

In general, you pay a little more for Japanese products than you do for Korean products. Kind of like you’ll usually pay more for a Honda than a Hyundai.

Assess what implements you need to do the jobs you need to do then buy the appropriate tractor to power those implements.

Consider renting a mini excavator rather than buying a backhoe for the tractor to keep costs down and to have the 3pt hitch available for implements. Mini excavators are far superior to tractor mounted backhoes for digging.

I own an eight acre property in Virginia similar to the OP’s and the two tractors I’m considering buying are the Kubota L3560 ROPS or the Yanmar YT235 Cab, both cost $27K.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

If i was looking at one today, i would give RK a good look.

And why a box blade and landscape rake?. I rented a rake for the one day i needed one, never needed a box blade. Tsc has the ratchet rake, which ive found useful. Also check out Everything Attachments wicked grapple.

 

[joleat]

Wow! These are the exact responses I was hoping for. I really appreciate the advice and it looks like I still have a lot to learn and consider. It's a good thing I won't be making my purchase for a few months.


Jeff,

Your statement regarding the elusiveness of tractor weight to new shoppers is spot on. Going into this, I can't say I gave much thought to the bare weight of the tractor... and that is in spite of seeing numerous videos of tractors with wheel weights, ballast boxes, etc. It just didn't occur to me to start heavy.


Rusty,

I suppose I haven't been entirely truthful (not on purpose... just didn't occur to me to include this before). There is a Kubota dealer less than an hour from me, but I've been steered clear of them. The next closest dealer is 2.5 hours away.

To be completely honest, we try to buy from locally owned businesses first whether it be the local grocery store, hardware store, or in this case, tractor dealer. I understand we have a global economy; the orange juice I had this morning was squeezed from a Chilean-grown orange. However, it was purchased at a family-owned IGA grocery store about 5 miles from my house.

In the case of tractor dealers, I have a Massey Ferguson dealer and a John Deere dealer less than an hour from me. They are both small family-owned dealerships. While this is a significant purchase, I place a lot of value on helping sustain my local community's economy. I like to know that part of the profit made from my locally made purchase is helping the business owner pay for his kid's music or karate lessons. I also like that I can walk through the doors of a number of local businesses and know the person behind the counter on a personal level. My wife and I have bounced around a bit. We've moved 10 times in the last five years. We are thankful to have finally purchased a home in the area where we grew up and we want to do as much as we can to reconnect with the community. Sappy? Perhaps.

Sorry, I didn't meant to turn this into a microeconomics and community engagement discussion, haha.


Major,

I've not read through those threads yet, but I certainly will. Thanks for chiming in.


Tractorable,

Thanks for posting. Renting an excavator is an interesting idea (and probably more cost effective for most), but I can't imagine purchasing a utility tractor without a backhoe.


Buckeye,

I have a ~200-yard gravel driveway I will be maintaining indefinitely. I've also identified a number of smaller grade-related projects on the property, such as reworking the crown in a heavily packed clay/gravel parking area that measures about 30' by 40'. From the YouTube videos I've watched, the box blades seem to add an almost dozer-like capability to a tractor.

 

[dragoneggs]

:welcome: joleat! Tons of info if you do some searching on this site. My initial thought when reading your post is you that you should also look at heavier tractors especially if you go with a dedicated mower. I have a BX with a BH and I absolutely love it but I have less than two acres to play with and lots of tight spaces to negotiate. There are times though that I wish I had more lift capacity.

If you plan to be a big DIYer and not hire or rent out a bigger machine, you might be a bit frustrated. Yes, you can get a lot done with a little tractor, it will just take longer. Good luck... and again, welcome!

 

[Tractorable]

Everything Attachments is the bomb for high quality made in USA implements. Plus, they’ll ship to WVA for free. You’ll definitely need one of their Wicked grapples.

Tractor Attachments And Skid Steer Attachments For Any Tractor Or Skid Steer