Iron Worker Punch Press

[OutbackL130]

I'm wanting an iron worker but have never used one before. When I drill holes on the drill press I first center punch my mark to know where to position my bit. From the videos it doesnt look like there is a point on the end of the punch press to line up your marks. How does this work?

 

[Shield Arc]

It's been ages since I used an ironworker, at one time I owned a Little Scotchman ironworker too. I had to think for a minute, but I seem to remember the punches having a point on them. Like these Edwards punches. Seems as I remember using a center punch just like for drilling the hole. Place the center punch mark of the tit on the punch, and slowly step on the pedal. The punch will push your material down onto the table, and punch the hole. Just don't get your fingers under the plate! :laughing:
8 Set Ironworker Round Tooling for Edwards CST Piranha IW's 1 2 1 1 16" | eBay

 

[4shorts]

I'm wanting an iron worker but have never used one before. When I drill holes on the drill press I first center punch my mark to know where to position my bit. From the videos it doesnt look like there is a point on the end of the punch press to line up your marks. How does this work?

Yes there is a nipple on the end of each punch to go by. Great machine to have.

 

[yomax4]

I thought that the Uni-Hydro had a center pin for punch line up. Great Iron Worker for the money. Of course Schotchman is the bench mark..

 

[4shorts]

Of course Schotchman is the bench mark..

Not sure if I agree with you there. The best I ever used was Piranha.

Piranha Overview

 

[Shield Arc]

I don't remember the name brand, but I worked for Mid West Conveyor Systems out of Kansas City. They had one that at least 8-guys could work on at the same time. Remember a guy on night shift used the wrong hole part for the punch. The punch broke hit him right in the chin went up his jaw and exited out of his jaw just before his ear! Guy never came back to work.

 

[Arc weld]

Peddinghaus are the top of the line but there's a lot of good ironworkers available. I was looking at Piranha and they look like a really well designed unit. The Uni-Hydro's are cheaper and a little bit crude looking. I remember reading that the guy that started Uni-Hydro used to be with Scotchman but they had a falling out. Scotchman are a good ironworker but guys that have used them, say they are slower than some other hyd. models. I've used a 105 ton Peddinghaus mechanical, 125 ton Kingsland Hydraulic and a couple smaller Mubea mechanical ironworkers as well as a 40 ton Uni-Hydro. The mechanical are real FAST! but can be very dangerous. Once you hit the button or pedal, there's no stopping it for an emergency. That's a big reason they don't make them anymore. I did like the mechanical better for punching holes because you could lower the punch into your center punch mark and just push a button for an instant hole. The hyd., you could do that but you had to change a hyd. function and then switch it back to punch the hole. Some hyd. let you put the punch on the plate but overall for punching holes a mechanical is faster. For other functions the hyd. shines because you can change tools for different applications. The hyd. is much safer because you usually have to keep pushing on the pedal/control until you're finished. The rule of thumb to remember when punching holes is that on mild steel, the smallest hole you can punch in a specific plate is the same diameter as the plate thickness. So if you have 1/4" plate, 1/4" is the smallest hole you could punch, 1/2" plate-1/2" hole. If you tried to punch say a 3/8" hole in 1/2" plate, you stand a good chance of breaking the punch. I think there are special punches available for doing smaller holes in thicker plate? Most punches do have a dimple to line up with a center punch mark and some punches also have a scalloped cutting edge to make punching easier. The cutting edge is on an angle to work like a shear and lower the pressure required for punching the hole.

 

[OutbackL130]

Thanks for all the info! Is it more common for guys to center punch their marks by hand onto the workpiece using a template? How do you setup jig fixtures on the punch press for repetitive holes?

If you have to do repetitive cuts on the angle and flat bar shear do most ironworkers have a stop gauge like the edwards posted above?

 

[camshawn]

The iron worker I used as a kid on my first job had a stop for repeat cuts. Once it was setup, I just checked the size every 50 pieces or so as advancing the flat bar would slowly move the stop if I pushed too hard.
For punching, I had a 2 sided jig setup under the guidance of the shop Forman. I still have all my fingers but did nip off the end of an oversized glove. It was a mechanical beast and once the peddle was stepped upon, the clamp came down followed by the punch. I do not remember any guards on that old machine.
I keep looking on Craig's list for one myself.

Cam

 

[OutbackL130]

I'm convinced an ironworker is going to make a great addition to the shop and will be used everyday for shearing, punching, bending and notching.

This ironworker happens to be located in my town. New 55 ton edwards costs a couple thousand more but it looks like this one has been used quite a bit. What do you guys think about it and the price?
55 ton EDWARDS IRON WORKER

I do like how everything is laid out on the edwards and how the punch is setup nicely on the outside for easy access where as some ironworkers I notice the punch is more obstructed.

 

[Arc weld]

Price out some new ones and also check used machinery dealers or for used ironworkers on the internet. There's actually a lot of them out there. Some have more tooling available like brakes and different blades for round and square bar etc.

 

[4shorts]

That's a pretty rough Edwards. Not sure if it would interest me for that price. I've had my Edwards for four years now and just love the thing. Bought mine new.
Having the iron worker is the easy part, getting the different punches and accessories is another costly part of owning one. I have the optional 12" brake as well as about 40 different punches. The machine isn't much good without the added accessories. I make up different jigs for actuate repetitive punching. Works well for me.
I'd take the advise of the others and look around.

 

[ultrarunner]

A guy I worked with at the Tool and Machine shop lost two fingers on a mechanical press when it cycled at the wrong time...

No stopping it once the cam is tripped.

It's the same machine I would spend days at a time on and count myself lucky.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

One of my buds saw my small punch press, grimaced, and said, "my momma told me she would allow me to go into the Marines before she would let me work a punch press."

 

[OutbackL130]

The punch press is really the main feature I need. I'm tired of drilling holes. As far as the other iron worker features I already have a custom hydraulic tubing notcher, 20 ton press brake, roper whitney angle notcher and an ellis bandsaw which do the job fine. Turns out my buddy knows the guy with that iron worker for sale. I'd like to get it for $4500 but if not then I might look for a cheap mechanical punch press although most of them are 3 phase which is going to be an added expense and headache to setup in my shop.

 

[OutbackL130]

Another ironworker I'm interested in is a buffalo 1 1/2 for $5000. It's probably overkill for my shop but I would still love to have it.
Buffalo 1 1 2 B Mechanical Ironworker | eBay
http://www.bmt-usa.com/resources/UIW+SALES+Bulletin+wo+Cover.pdf


What are your thoughts on the buffalo ironworkers in general and compared to the edwards 55 ton?

 

[OutbackL130]

In researching the edwards I've come across mixed reviews where a few people mention that the hydraulic pump is very loud and resonates at the right (deafening) frequency to be annoying. Do you find the noise to be annoying for extended use? Is it louder than a lawn mower?

I have a northern tool log splitter pump powering my custom made hydraulic tubing bender. I always wear ear plugs when I use it but have been told a time or two that it is very loud and annoying. I imagine the edwards might be similar.

 

[4shorts]

In researching the edwards I've come across mixed reviews where a few people mention that the hydraulic pump is very loud and resonates at the right (deafening) frequency to be annoying. Do you find the noise to be annoying for extended use? Is it louder than a lawn mower?

I have a northern tool log splitter pump powering my custom made hydraulic tubing bender. I always wear ear plugs when I use it but have been told a time or two that it is very loud and annoying. I imagine the edwards might be similar.

Not sure if your directing the question towards me but seeing I own an Edwards I give you my opinion on it. The Edwards has the electric over hydraulic pump. I only have mine turned on while I'm using it. Like all hydraulic pumps it has that usual whining noise. When I was researching ironworkers I read that the Edwards were noisy and I found out that the older models before mine were reported to be that way, fortunately mine isn't and although I do hear it, I really don't notice it. My radio is louder than the ironworker.

I noticed that Edwards restyled all there ironworkers. The lifting legs look smaller and so do the full unit but if it's anything like the 60 ton unit I have then it will be the best tool you'll put in your shop

That first Edwards you showed for sale looked like its been through two wars. I wouldn't even consider something like that for that kind of money. The base of it looked like its been through a rough time.
If I were needing another ironworker today I'd pick up the phone and buy another Edwards that's how much I like this unit. It's built in America too. That's getting hard to say these days.

 

[BXpanded]

The Edwards really doesn't look too bad to me. The guys across the street have a 100 or so ton Edwards that looks far worse, but it's mostly just dirt and such from lack of use in the last few years (blame the economy). They seem to like it just fine. Looks like he might have several punch sets and some optional attachments to go with it. As Paul noted, those add up fast. I just bought a 1/2" square punch and die set. It cost about $120. I don't know the new price of the Edwards, so I don't really have a feel for the price. I noticed that it uses single phase power. That usually costs extra. Most iron workers are designed for constant use, so a small shop would probably never wear out the mechanicals.

I've used the Scotchman and Uni Hydro. We have a Piranha P-50 that I really like. It's faster than most other brands as it has a 10 hp motor instead of the 5 hp that most have. I really like the urethane hold downs and strippers. They save lots of time since they don't need much if any adjustment for different materials. It's also nice that the work height of all the stations except the angle shear, are the same height. That lets you use the same feed table or support for shearing. punching, notching, etc. The built in coper/notcher is really handy. I don't believe it's available in single phase though. Used ones show up at reasonable prices occasionally. If you don't have 3 phase power you'd need a 20 hp rotary converter to run it. I confess, ours looks pretty bad too. It's in great mechanical shape, but we have cutting, welding and grinding dust in that area of the shop. Seems like it attracts it all.


Paul keeps his machine immaculately clean. Don't expect to find a used machine that looks like that.


You should check shear knives and such. Replacements are in the $300-$500 range. Some blades have multiple edges and can be turned 4 times.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Do you own the shop? And have you figured in the cost of preparing a suitable foundation for the machine? Something that size will destroy the concrete floor in no time at all.

I would closely at installation manuals closely. A friend of mine has an old 50 ton mechanical and he says the foundation for it is something like six feet times six feet with good concrete and a ton or iron.

This for the mechanical punch presses and iron workers.