irrigating my 1/2 acre garden using lake water

[karnum]

Hi,
I am new to this forum and this is my first post. Glad to know this forum exists!

We have not had any rain to speak of this summer and I am tired of hauling buckets of water from the lake to water my 1/2 acre garden. I started doing my research and came across this forum. I am looking to purchase a fuel based trash pump (no access to electric power) that can handle some solids because the lake shore has weeds. The lake shore is quite shallow and full of lake weeds so I may need to go about 100 feet in. This will put me about 15 feet below ground level. I am thinking of building a deck to get the lift and install the pump. I dont have any idea what the HP of the pump should be to get enough suction and the discharge needs to travel atleast 200 feet to access the entire garden. Any suggestions, thoughts appreciated. Thanks and lets hope for some rain.

 

[muddstopper]

Most of your trash pumps will lift water from the pond about 20ft and push the water about 80ft vertical. Horizontal distance for just 200ft isnt going to be a issue. If you where trying to pump a half a mile than you might have a problem due to friction loss. I regularly would pump thru 400ft of hose to fill a water truck from creeks and streams. As for sucking trash, most of the smaller pumps (2in) will allow 3/4inch solids to pass, the little bitty pumps maybe not quite as large. I suggest that you put a strainer on your suction hose, just because the pump might pass the solids, no use wearing the pump out when a strainer cost so little. A new pump will most likely come with a suction hose and strainer if you get it a Tractor Supply or Northerntool. If your shallow lake has enough water to completely cover the suction strainer, then that is as deep as you need to go, provided you aint going to pump the lake dry.

 

[Qapla]

You definitely need the strainer/screen on the intake line. Even if the pump can pass the solids, unless you are planning to just flood the rows from a hose the irrigation nozzles will not pass the solids.

If you can locate the pump close enough to the lake a PTO pump like those used for spraying may work.

 

[karnum]

thanks for your input. This is quite encouraging to me. I was definitely thinking of including the strainer on the intake and it is good to know that I can pull from a shallow lake shore even though its got the murky lake weeds. I dont think I will suck the lake dry you can see it in this picture. View attachment 272905
I thinking of mostly the flooding method for now, if I start getting clear water with no solids I might opt to sprinklers but with no rains in our area the lake weeds are growing like a thick carpet. I am thinking that is good because if I can draw that onto my land it will fertilize as well as act as mulch. anyway, I am considering either a 2" or 3" gas trash pump. I will be setting it up the discharge plumbing in such a way that I can go down from 2 or 3" to 3/4" so I can use garden hose for the watering mostly because it is cheap.
I am finding pumps at 2.5 HP to be cheaper than 6.5 HP besides cost my consideration now is to deal with pressure. I want to have enough pressure to reach the entire garden but I dont to have too much pressure to might bust my pipe. Also to add I am mostly looking up things on ebay where i am finding 2.5 hp gas pumps for $110 and 6.5 jump up to $250+. off course I would prefer to buy it from an authorized dealer and get some type of warranty so thanks for Tractor Supply and northen tools input I will look into them.
Anyway, let me stop rambling and get to the point. I need to decide on HP strength, and also figure the pressure issue. Thanks again.

 

[muddstopper]

I can tell you from experience that the 4.5hp 2inch water pump will pump 600gal in about 6 minutes as that is what I used to use to fill my 600gal hydroseeder. It would fill the tank faster than I could dump the materials in the tank. Actually, I think you will find that the 2inch pump will flood your garden and possibly even wash it out if you use the flood method for irrigation. I cant be positive about that, but you need to give it some thought before you buy one. I would probably go with one of the smaller one inch pumps for irrigation on 1/2 acre. It will be a lot cheaper to connect to your garden hoses and put out more water than you should need. If you want to use sprinkler head you can purchase a small strainer like used on chemical spray rigs pretty cheap at Tractor Supply. If it will keep a mist nozzle clear, it should work just fine for a sprinkler head. Pressure shouldnt be an issue for garden hoses using a trash type pump, maybe 60psi would be the max it will produce. Your household water system probably has that much or more pressure. With all that said, I know a person that is using the 2in trash pump to irrigate his garden from a creek. I think I counted 11 springler heads connected to it using large pipe for the trunk line reduced down to whatever size pipe is needed for each head. The pipe is on top of post along the edge of the garden. He is irrigateing about 1/2 acre, same as you.

 

[Rock knocker]

In many states surface water is the property of the state, and individuals may not use these waters without an irrigation permit

 

[karnum]

I looked into the law. Wisconsin DNR allows the use of waterways for irrigation as long as it is non-commercial use.
Mudstopper- Thank you for your input.. very helpful. I am thinking of going with 2.5 HP, 2" pump for $150. Here is a link on ebay:
PORTABLE 2.5 HP 2" GAS POWERED WATER PUMP SELF PRIMING | eBay
This one has a 13' lift and might be similar to the one you described being used for 1/2 acre lot. I am planning doing the trunk line and reduce it down to garden hoses coming off it at regular intervals. I would like to do a sprinkler setup but the water near lake shore look black. its laden with algae so I am still not sure if the strainer will work. so I am thinking of putting the strainer that comes with motor into a covered bucket so it doesnt suck in all the weeds. Hey, thanks for explaining how the pressure works that is good to know.

 

[wotalota]

I pumped water from the lake for a vegetable garden with the input to the pump up on blocks to get it out of the mud.
If it is for a vegetable garden, would recommend using soker hoses to distribute the water. Avoid spraying it on the folage to have success with tomatoe plants and keep things clean.

 

[20 20]

Have used a little 1.5 inch hose pump 99cc(I believe) from HF it could easily move water from 12 feet down up to the pump then over 200' away on a flat area. I agree with those that said get it off the bottom and add some type of screen. No matter what the pump can handle if the hose gets plugged you'll be done.

 

[charlz]

I water my lawn and my garden off my pond and sometimes out of a ditch. For most things a 1hp electric pump is used with a regular sprinkler system or sometimes flood. For others I flood using a Honda clear water pump rated at 220gpm with a 2" intake and 1.5" discharge hose. I use two kinds of discharge hose. One is with fittings on it you can buy most anywhere and is reinforced. The other is not reinforced and can't take much pressure. Does not have fitting, you can buy it by the foot at Home Depot, farm and garden places etc. This second type works well for flooding as it doesn't kink as easy so you can move it around. You will not be able to run the pump wide open as a small hose like that will whip and the force of the water will erode your soil away. I recently got a piece of 3" blue discharge hose and that works pretty well with the pump as I can run it wide open and the water pressure is fairly low at the discharge end.

I would look to a larger pump but plan on running it slow. This will help with not eroding your soil away and on the suction end keeping the flow down through the strainer will help keep the weeds from sticking to it. The larger the strainer the better. If I get a chance I might post some pics of what I use later.

 

[bcp]

Easier to keep a floating intake clean. Fasten to a pole or use a rigid pipe to it to push it out away from the shore.

Greenscape Pump Services

Bruce

 

[boggen]

no longer remember 3/4 acre or 1 acre (front lake) and a pump was setup years ago to water cattle.

things i have learned.

you do not want the intake screen to be in mud, and you want to keep the intake screen in approx 5 feet or deeper water. anything shallower = nothing but nightmare clogs.

for years, a LP tank for like a outdoor gas grill. was used, with a stainless steel chain paddlocked (better than trying to wire or bolt chain to the LP tank (lasted longer other words) and then use chain to also hook to a 8x8x16 inch concrete block. the LP tank kept the chain and pipe end out of the mud. the concrete block acted like an anchor in the mud. that kept the LP tank and pipe end from going all over the lake or were ever it decided to go.

weeds are a big killer / clogger. and if you can get a big enough "intake screen" or foot valve. or simply take a piece of sch 40 or 80 pipe. and drill a bunch of holes, or place on table saw and only cut half way through pipe. you can make for a bigger screen inlet.

the strainer for end of pipe out in the lake is really needed. it keeps a vortex / whirl pool current from forming. and sucking air into the pipe. when the lake gets low, in the dry seasons and more so during drought years.

but weeds are not the only thing that are a killer, small fry (baby fish), tad poles, and other critters. will be sucked right through a stainer. and into the pump.

you could prolly use black poly pipe. for a intake pipe. but problem is most plastic and pvc pipe and hose out there will want to float up and out of the water. even when the pipe is full of water. so you going to want to figure out a way, to place weight over the pipe every so many feet to keep the pipe down in the mud between shore and up to near pipe end. you can normally find "sand bags" just the bags themselves. and then fill them up with some dry ready mix concrete (half full if that of concrete per bag) and then try to drop them and place them as best you can over the pipe. after a couple days the concrete will harden real good under water. and act like custom weights on the pipe. to hold it down.

when ya get the pipe near shore, dig into the dirt shore line, a couple feet. and then come up out the ground. were a quick connect. so you can easily connect a gas water pump to. going into the shore line a couple feet. helps protect the pipe from freezing ice during winter some.

EDIT: forgot one thing. install a TEE before the quick connect to gas pump. and then a valve. and then install a foot valve or check valve below water level (most likely at end of pipe that is 100 foot out into the lake) so that you can prime the pipe if you ever need to. placing check valve or foot valve on end of pipe. should allow you to pull LP tank or like float up and out of the water and give you access to check valve to replace or clean intake screen or like if you ever need to.

================
200 feet between pump and garden. is pretty far, and trying to use garden hoses. is really going to eat up friction loss. and amount of GPM you can get from pump. it might be worth again buying some black poly pipe. and just unraveling the coil along the ground on top of the grass. or just do a permanent situation and trench the pipe in. with a quick connect were gas pump will be. and then near garden use a barb fitting to a tee with a couple garden hose connections. (no valves)

===============
personally like to upsize my pipe one to 2 sizes bigger, than what the inlet size is on pump, and 1 size bigger than what the outlet size is on a pump. to reduce friction loss.

say 1.5" to 2" for pipe on inlet side of pump that goes out into lake, then 1" to 1.25" for pipe between pumps outlet and the garden.

===============
if you go with a larger 2" inlet/outlet gas pump. you might want to think about taking 2 plastic heavy duty milk crates. and place over the intake screen out in the lake and fasten with some zip ties or heavy duty nylon fishing line. to help keep sticks and fish from being sucked to the side of the intake screen and clogging things up good.

 

[muddstopper]

In many states surface water is the property of the state, and individuals may not use these waters without an irrigation permit

I know of no state where any waters are the property of the state. All water that doesnot originate and terminate its flows on your property are the property of the United States. Further, you only need a permit if you are withdrawing less than 100,000 gal a day or 1 million gals a year if you are drawing from public waters. Unless they have changed the laws in the last couple or 3 years. I have had to fight more than a few nosey folks about this subject over the years back when I was in the hydroseeding business. I finally got to a point where I carried an actual copy of the law in my trucks and would tell the busybodies to go stickit. Even made one sheriff debuty eat crow when he tried to prove he was mister badguy and was going to lock me up for pumping water from a highway bridge over a creek. Which is very legal to do as long as you provide proper flagging protection and dont obstruck traffic flow. Mind you, you cant go on private property to reach a stream or pond, but you can from public highways and roads.

 

[Rock knocker]

I know of no state where any waters are the property of the state. All water that doesnot originate and terminate its flows on your property are the property of the United States. Further, you only need a permit if you are withdrawing less than 100,000 gal a day or 1 million gals a year if you are drawing from public waters. Unless they have changed the laws in the last couple or 3 years. I have had to fight more than a few nosey folks about this subject over the years back when I was in the hydroseeding business. I finally got to a point where I carried an actual copy of the law in my trucks and would tell the busybodies to go stickit. Even made one sheriff debuty eat crow when he tried to prove he was mister badguy and was going to lock me up for pumping water from a highway bridge over a creek. Which is very legal to do as long as you provide proper flagging protection and dont obstruck traffic flow. Mind you, you cant go on private property to reach a stream or pond, but you can from public highways and roads.

You learn something new everyday.

Water Rights | Water Resources Program | Washington State Department of Ecology

Laws which may be in use in wetter areas often are completely different that laws in the arid west

Remember, as late as 1922, the National Gaurds of Arizona and California were on the verge of an actual shooting war involving entrenched troops and automatic weapons

Read about it in this book:
Cadillac Desert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[charlz]

Easier to keep a floating intake clean. Fasten to a pole or use a rigid pipe to it to push it out away from the shore.

Greenscape Pump Services

Bruce

I have something like that on my pond for the intake on my electric pump... consists of a 20' section of PVC, a 90degree elbow with a foot valve and screen on the end... all suspended by a goose decoy At the shore is a PVC compression coupling so you can loosen it and remove the floating section for cleaning etc.

 

[karnum]

Hi, sorry been quite here. Mostly because we had some much needed rains and that kept busy in the garden doing more planting and keeping the weeds down. These rains almost made me think of dropping the irrigation idea but sure can't trust mother nature so I am back on it.

Boggen: Thanks much for your detailed note on your experience.. very much appreciate that. Your input gave me a lot to think about.

The first thing I pondered about was the horse-power on the motor. The two choices I was debating over was the 2.5 HP and the 6.5 HP. The price difference is about $50 but I wondered if I really needed that much more water goes from 6000 GPH to 13000 GPH and I only have 1/4 ac. Anyway, I decided to go with the 2.5 HP and try out the technique suggested by Boggen and others.
I will let you know how it goes.

 

[WBWI]

I just bought this pumpPowerhorse Semi-Trash Pump — 2in. Ports, 7860 GPH, 5/8in. Solids Capacity, 208cc Powerhorse Engine | Semi-Trash| Northern Tool + Equipment from Northern Tool so I could water some young trees. I created a PVC "y" that has a garden hose connector on one leg and a bypass/relief on the other leg to divert water back to my pond. I control the pressure to the garden hose by opening or closing a ball valve. I was worried that I would stall the pump by trying to force water from a 2" discharge hose into a 3/4" garden hose. I bought a boat dock bumper and use it to float my intake hose. It all works better that I expected. I'm pushing water 200' plus with this setup.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Can someone talk me through water pumps... I have a pond 100 feet below the house,at least 100 feet in front (probably more like 150fteet) so a nearly 200 foot run 100 feet in vertical climb.
Would WBWI pump work for me or do I need something else for watering trees or maybe just filling a storage barrel?

 

[WBWI]

Woodlandfarms, see if this helps explain things, Calculating Pond Head Pressure - Everything-Ponds.com

 

[Smokepole62]

Another thought on this subject would be to go ashore a few feet and dig in a shallow well. This could be laid up with
concrete blocks , plastic drum, or a short poly culvert pipe on end. After you backfill just pump with a trash pump
to clear out the silt. Just make sure you dig a few feet farther than your lowest water level. This eliminates weeds, sticks,
and small aquatic animals.