Is $300 to much for mowing 20 acres?

[scesnick]

WOW, What a response to my simple question. This joker never did call me back ( Yet ) but I occasionally drive by his place and as of 2 days ago his field is still 3 feet high.
He has since called my buddy's BIL to mow it and I know what he must have told him because it is still not mowed. His BIL told me before hand that he would not but his tractor on his trailer for $300 at any job.
I hope his field grows up past his head. That way he can go get lost in it !!!

 

[bx23barry]

I paid a guy $900 to grind 35 stumps last year (walnut orchard). Took him half a day. His stump grinder cost no more than a tractor/hog combo, and he worked alone. Got a heck of a deal, everyone else was at least twice as much. Sure I could move to the midwest/south and pay less but then I wouldn't be home. But you guys can stay were ya are; Please.

 

[AndyM]

No way is someone, even where you live going to pay me $1000 for 3 hours of mowing weeds.

How much does it cost in your area?
(Sounds like that would make a good thread!)

 

[lawn_king]

Of course you wouldn't get it. Your lawn care business ZTR's or whatever you use are not the proper equipment to be bidding on this job.

You don't price a job based on the equipment you happen to have. I'm sure some guy with a 21-inch pushmower would be quoting even more than you are saying it's worth.

#1 we are not in the mowing business, we dont own any ztr's. We are a fertilization company & tractor service. The $1000. price was based on rotary cutting 20 acres of weeds with our kubota B3030 HSDC. That may be high in other parts of the country but it's not here in the boston area. We are getting $ 2300. for core aerating 14 acres and banging it out in a day.

 

[curt1]

Many people who are not serious about running a business never calculate their P/L. This is why so many go out of business after a year or so. They are proud to do their work cheap.

Curt

 

[LoneCowboy]

Many people who are not serious about running a business never calculate their P/L. This is why so many go out of business after a year or so. They are proud to do their work cheap.

Curt

Exactly
I'm so glad this thread is still alive, it's mostly why I broke down and stopped lurking.
I do basically the same thing on the side.
It's not the labor in the hourly rate, it's the cost of capital.
So, you have a truck. (cheap 10k, 50 cents a mile, probably more than that)
a trailer (3k, registration, insruance, etc)
you have a tractor (20k, plus service, insurance, parts, wear and tear)
bush hog ($1000, plus wear and tear)
you have business insurance, taxes, cost of a phone, cost of business cards, advertising, etc
Then, the labor, at $20 an hour.
And somewhere in there, you need to have a profit, otherwise you might as well stay on the couch and watch TV.

You have to recover your cost of capital. YOu could be making 5% on T bills on that 40 to 50k you have wrapped up in equipment. I expect my machines to pay for themselves in 3 years or less (other people may use different numbers). You have to figure the pro-rated cost of service, business expenses, etc, all included.

Personally, out here, it's $75 an hour for about anything and up to $125 an hour for 15 foot batwings. (which is too cheap for them, but it's not me so....) At $75 an hour you aren't making a ton of money, but you are surviving. I wouldn't even get out of bed for what he's paying you. (BTW, for comparison, a 30hp tractor with bush hog rents for about $400 a day plus delivery, and rentals understand cost recovery. So, if it's all day at most you are getting $200 for your labor and profit)

YOu need to recover all your costs, or a couple years are going to go by and you are going to have made a living, but your tractor and truck will be worn out and you won't have anything to replace them. What then?

Charge correctly.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Exactly
I'm so glad this thread is still alive, it's mostly why I broke down and stopped lurking.
I do basically the same thing on the side.
It's not the labor in the hourly rate, it's the cost of capital.
So, you have a truck. (cheap 10k, 50 cents a mile, probably more than that)
a trailer (3k, registration, insruance, etc)
you have a tractor (20k, plus service, insurance, parts, wear and tear)
bush hog ($1000, plus wear and tear)
you have business insurance, taxes, cost of a phone, cost of business cards, advertising, etc
Then, the labor, at $20 an hour.
And somewhere in there, you need to have a profit, otherwise you might as well stay on the couch and watch TV.

You have to recover your cost of capital. YOu could be making 5% on T bills on that 40 to 50k you have wrapped up in equipment. I expect my machines to pay for themselves in 3 years or less (other people may use different numbers). You have to figure the pro-rated cost of service, business expenses, etc, all included.

Personally, out here, it's $75 an hour for about anything and up to $125 an hour for 15 foot batwings. (which is too cheap for them, but it's not me so....) At $75 an hour you aren't making a ton of money, but you are surviving. I wouldn't even get out of bed for what he's paying you. (BTW, for comparison, a 30hp tractor with bush hog rents for about $400 a day plus delivery, and rentals understand cost recovery. So, if it's all day at most you are getting $200 for your labor and profit)

YOu need to recover all your costs, or a couple years are going to go by and you are going to have made a living, but your tractor and truck will be worn out and you won't have anything to replace them. What then?

Charge correctly.

There has to be a line drawn as to what the "business" is. Will it be part-time suplimental income? Is it a full-time stand alone enterprize? Do you want to work 10 hours a week? 20? 80? Do you want to be competitive? Or do you want a handfull of "exclusive clients" that pay premium rates to get you on a moments notice?

What does the market dictate for pricing in your immediate area. Do you feel the need to use new equipment, or are you content with buying used, or using your tractor for 20 years?

In this immediate area, price mowing with 40HP/6' mower at anything over $50 an hour, and you'll not get enough work to pay for a box of business cards. I'm sure that's not the case everywhere. 100HP/15' batwing, MAYBE $100 here, but that's a stretch.

And there's people doing it for a living at those rates that have been doing it for years and years.

Granted, these people don't have brand new, shiney 2006 tractors. They don't have a new pick up every year. Most use tractors they bought used and work on themselves. That's about the only way they can hold overhead low enough to remain competitive. Insurance, fuel, taxes, and even wages are fairly constant across the country. (Wages being sort of "iffy")

For the most part, people won't give a hoot what you show up with to mow their field. They couldn't care any less if you use a 40-year-old Ford or a 4 HOUR old John Deere. They just want a cheap price on their work.

Pay carefull attention to the fact that rates vary wildly from state to state. Obviously, east coast and west coast municipal areas lead the charge on what people charge. Here in rural Kentucky, as well as most mid-west and southern rural areas, you'd starve to death asking some of the rates we've seen quoted.

Since "retiring" from farming and starting to slow up at my regular job, I've taken on a few side jobs mowing and such. I can make $20 to $25 an hour above expenses (fuel/insurance/milage on truck & trailer/upkeep on equipment/periodic replacement of mower) at $40 an hour. I charge $50 when I do side work. $10 an hour towards replacement cost of a tractor is good money in my book. (Figure lifespan of tractor @ 5000 hrs.) Especially considering I use a 36+ year old tractor that was paid for 36 years ago! I sincerly doubt someone in the metro Boston area could do that. But by the same token, I doubt they could take a brand new tractor and charge competitively with someone using an older tractor/equipment.

Sometimes making money isn't all about looking fancy while you're doing it.

If you want new equipment, the latest and greatest truck, and hired help in sharp looking uniforms, your customer pays for it, or else you don't stay in business long. Folks here won't pay for that sort of thing. I can't understand why anyone ANYWHERE would.

 

[tydp]

Here in Northeast Texas, tell someone you would charge a $1000 to mow their 20 acres and they'll laugh at you.....

 

[BillyP]

Here in Northeast Texas, tell someone you would charge a $1000 to mow their 20 acres and they'll laugh at you.....

Here in Southeast Oklahoma, they'd probably shoot you

Then the local DA wouldn't press charges cause it was justifiable attempted robbery homicide by suicide with intent to do mental anguish.

 

[curt1]

Of course, there are people in business who run around with no commercial vehicle insurance, no business liability insurance, never pay a penny of tax(nor do they intend to), myriads of variables and their prices reflect it. And their pricing brings the area price market way down in some cases. They charge 1980 prices, when someone doing everything correct is having to charge current 2006 prices just to stay in business and keep up with inflation. I compete with this type every day. Of course, in many cases their quality and reliability may not be up to par, which is sometimes a factor.
I never try and compete with a basement bargain type business. I wont get out of the bed for that type of work. Don't want to work for that type of customer. Do one job for $1000 for a decent profit or 10 jobs for $1000 and lose your rear---but you HAVE done a lot of work. I guess someone could brag about being very busy! Thats not my cup of tea. Volume won't get a business anywhere if it is going in the hole everytime. It will tell on it in a couple of years. Some people just never understand business basics.
Today I talked to some painters doing an inside job on a house selling for $325,000. They were bragging about doing the work for half the amount normal painters are charging. They told me painters charged way too much for their work. One of the two said, "of course, we are having to paint it again because the owner wanted to slightly darken the color." I asked if they were charging any more and the reply was "No, we are just repainting it to make him (the owner of the house) happy" Then they replied "The owner asked us if we wanted cash." They were doing the job for 1/4 the normal rate. I am sure they took cash---as in no taxes would be paid on their earnings. The painters said they were full time.
This reminded me of other types of people wanting/trying to run a business. I learned a long time ago, you cannot rationalize with this type of person because they will NEVER understand business basics 101----they think they know everything and are not willing to learn anything.

Curt