Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet?

   / Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet?
  • Thread Starter
#291  

Stupid Crypto Talking Point #2 (Number go up)​


Stupid Crypto Talking Point #2 "NuMb3r g0 Up!!!" / "Best performing asset of the decade!"


Whether the "price of crypto" goes up, has absolutely no bearing on whether it's..

A long term store of value
Holds any intrinsic value or utility
Or will return any value in the future

One of the most important tenets of investing is the simple principal: Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns. People in crypto seem willfully ignorant of this basic concept. At best, the price of crypto is a function of popularity, not actual value or material utility. For more on how and why crypto makes a much worse investment than almost anything else, see this article. The "price of crypto" is a heavily manipulated figure published by shady, unregulated crypto exchanges that have systematically been caught manipulating the market from then to now.

Do you deny that over time more and more traditional assets have been poured into Bitcoin?

Do you think that trend will reverse and not continue to increase? If so, why?

Do you really think that Bitcoin has no utility or value when Bitcoin can be verified globally, can be moved at the speed of the internet, and transactions can the settled without middlemen? if so, then okay as there is a place for rotary phones as well and we call it history.
 
   / Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet? #292  
Other forms of property can be confiscated, restricted, or decay.

Which is odd because BTC has been confiscated, restricted, and a lot of people have lost all of their coins to various forms of digital "decay"...

Bitcoin is the apex of money because it cannot be diluted through the creation of more than its fixed supply of 21,000,000 coins.

And yet it can still be endlessly replicated and forked... Which of the various BTC forks are the TRUE bitcoin? Different people have different opinions. It's also not "anything", investing in a company producing actual physical goods might be "faith based" but it's not counting angels on the head of pin level of faith based.

Do you really think that Bitcoin has no utility or value when Bitcoin can be verified globally, can be moved at the speed of the internet, and transactions can the settled without middlemen?

Sigh, same old blah blah blah. It's still vulnerable to 51% attacks, has a terrible gini coefficient even moreso if you look at the miner distribution, good luck actually SETTLING a transaction in anything resembling a reasonable timeline lol "speed of the internet" more like "speed of the internet if we used IP over Pigeon". And the whole "no middlemen" thing is sus at best.. you're still dependent on the miners to actually record the transaction - and they 100% take their cut. What is that if not a middleman? (don't bother answering... it'll just be more dissembling)

There's a reason basically all of the crypto is held and even moreso traded without being it being actually done with the underlying blockchains. I'll say it again one more time for effect... IT DOES NOT SCALE! Mathematically it CANNOT SCALE.

Also since it's a limited resource, and is wholly dependent on new coin mining for transactions.. what happens when the blockchain runs out? Yeah yeah the middlemen could take a bigger cut (yaah?) but that would require rewriting the entire protocol (oh it's immutable you say and yet...)..

Do you think that trend will reverse and not continue to increase? If so, why?

I think it's unknowable because I don't think anyone has any way to know the number of greater fools and gullible suckers who'll keep taking the bet.. Combine that with the blatant market manipulation and.. yeah it's impossible to put a timeline on it.

I think once the whales have largely cashed out on retail the house of cards will crumble 100%... but how long will that take? IDK.. Speaking off.. bets that Microstrategy dumps a bunch more crap stock to keep pimping that ponzi? They're kind of out of the last round of options (dumping $1.4 BILLION into an illiquid market like BTC in one week had a nice bump effect lol).

Looks like everyones favorite money laundering crypto Monero got a nice price bump from the $331 MILLION hack of some poor suckers BTC that was laundered through Monero... Criminals and scammers all the way down.
 
   / Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet?
  • Thread Starter
#293  
Which is odd because BTC has been confiscated, restricted, and a lot of people have lost all of their coins to various forms of digital "decay"...



And yet it can still be endlessly replicated and forked... Which of the various BTC forks are the TRUE bitcoin? Different people have different opinions. It's also not "anything", investing in a company producing actual physical goods might be "faith based" but it's not counting angels on the head of pin level of faith based.



Sigh, same old blah blah blah. It's still vulnerable to 51% attacks, has a terrible gini coefficient even moreso if you look at the miner distribution, good luck actually SETTLING a transaction in anything resembling a reasonable timeline lol "speed of the internet" more like "speed of the internet if we used IP over Pigeon". And the whole "no middlemen" thing is sus at best.. you're still dependent on the miners to actually record the transaction - and they 100% take their cut. What is that if not a middleman? (don't bother answering... it'll just be more dissembling)

There's a reason basically all of the crypto is held and even moreso traded without being it being actually done with the underlying blockchains. I'll say it again one more time for effect... IT DOES NOT SCALE! Mathematically it CANNOT SCALE.

Also since it's a limited resource, and is wholly dependent on new coin mining for transactions.. what happens when the blockchain runs out? Yeah yeah the middlemen could take a bigger cut (yaah?) but that would require rewriting the entire protocol (oh it's immutable you say and yet...)..



I think it's unknowable because I don't think anyone has any way to know the number of greater fools and gullible suckers who'll keep taking the bet.. Combine that with the blatant market manipulation and.. yeah it's impossible to put a timeline on it.

I think once the whales have largely cashed out on retail the house of cards will crumble 100%... but how long will that take? IDK.. Speaking off.. bets that Microstrategy dumps a bunch more crap stock to keep pimping that ponzi? They're kind of out of the last round of options (dumping $1.4 BILLION into an illiquid market like BTC in one week had a nice bump effect lol).

Looks like everyones favorite money laundering crypto Monero got a nice price bump from the $331 MILLION hack of some poor suckers BTC that was laundered through Monero... Criminals and scammers all the way down.

1) Bitcoin that the courts have seized was done so only through the cooperation of criminals through plea-deals.

2) Bitcoin that has been stolen was only through access of passwords and seed phrases.

3) Hard forks are normally done to fix deficiencies and add functionally. If some group makes a hard fork without the community consensus, then they have created an altogether different coin even if the coin has "Bitcoin" somewhere in the name. Here is a history of Bitcoin hard forks https://dailycoin.com/history-of-bitcoin-forks-every-major-version-of-bitcoin-explained/

4) Because of the current hash rate the required computing power to try a 51% attack nowadays requires more computational power than all the data centers in the world combined and would cost Billions of dollars for control for one ten minute block. Andreas Antonopoulos explains in a now ten-year old video and also explains what a non-starter gaining control of one ten-minute Bitcoin block would do.


5) As I've previously discussed in this thread, with impending rise of quantum processing and AI, quantum resistant security protocols have already been developed and it is just a matter of implementing hard forks on crypto chains to implement them—in fact, a number of of developers are already discussing when and where to do so on their developmental road maps. As it is, Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google, was before Congress two weeks ago explaining that data-centers will need an additional 29 gigawatts of power by 2027 and that the "average" nuclear power plant produces only one gigawatt of power. This is to help explain the resources that currently would be needed to bring to bear to try a 51% attack.


6) Bitcoin doesn't scale. Bitcoin doesn't need to scale because starting next month Bitcoin users will not even know they are using the Cardano blockchain for transactions through the BOS Grail bridge. This was announced last year and the demo is being shown in a few days this May.

7) We're still dependent on Bitcoin miners. Well, duh. Like the internet, the hash-rate (Bitcoin's total computational power) is distributed among the miners. This argument is like saying, you cannot have peer to peer interactions over the internet because it requires the internet! Even your own reflection about this argument show you know it is a non sequitur.

8) The whales have already cashed out. Long-term holders (LTH) are entities that have kept their BTC dormant for at least 155 days and their numbers continue to increase while total Bitcoin sitting on exchanges continues to be drawn down. This means there is less supply in the face of steady demand and if we have a demand shock (which is expected as soon as more nation states officially begin accumulating Bitcoin reserves), Bitcoin's spot price is expected to rise.

GpdQ0kzWgAAlfmH.jpeg


9) Bitcoin and the Greater Fool Theory (GFT), market bubbles, et el. For those reading along The Greater Fool Theory suggests that the price of Bitcoin, like other speculative assets, is driven by the belief that someone else (a "greater fool") will pay a higher price for it in the future, rather than its intrinsic value. This theory highlights the risks of investing in Bitcoin, as its value can be highly volatile and dependent on market sentiment rather than fundamental worth.

It is increasingly hard to maintain the GTF theory in light that more and more people, institutions, companies, municipalities, states, and nations interest in accumulating Bitcoin has steadily increased over Bitcoin's now 16-year existence. Moreover, it is hard to maintain GTF in light that Bitcoin's continued adoption is a global phenomenon that includes all strata of class and cultures throughout the world. Furthermore, it is difficult to maintain GTF that more and more of those buyers of Bitcoin are becoming long term hodlers of Bitcoin, meaning they aren't just buying with a get rich quick mindset but have a long-term or eternal mindset of holding Bitcoin (the "Never sell your Bitcoin" mantra, cf. see the video below as to how Bitcoin is beginning to be used for generating more wealth with the introduction of Bitcoin-backed bonds).

As you have previously noted, for long term holders, volatility and chaos of Bitcoin pricing is a feature that allows further accumulation at lower costs. Fluctuations in Bitcoin pricing (referred to as the "underlying") is a gift in the options market trading the Greeks and one of the reason's companies like $MSTR have exploded in market cap because of their options market size and not just because of increased investor interest in the underlying equity and bonds.

But hey, perhaps in the years to come the world will one day realize that Bitcoin was a losing bet as our history is replete with institutions, cultures, and ideas that dried up on the vine and were cut off, but if such a time does come to pass, that time is not yet.

 
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   / Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet? #294  
... .. ... Criminals and scammers all the way down.
Coffeezilla / Voidzilla posted this today. His research into how the core cash vanished from a bitcoin, is now being used by federal investigators to prosecute the last of the coin founders. One of the founders has pleaded guilty, another has left the country, and this present prosecution involves the third.

Longwinded and detailed, but he has the right to be proud of how his work is the foundation of this federal investigation.

(For me this wouldn't play until I clicked 'Watch on Youtube' near the bottom of the screen).

 
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   / Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet? #295  
Coffeezilla / Voidzilla posted this today

Yeah Coffee is great, he does a lot of good work in this space.

I kind of think of safemoon as relatively small potatoes in this space. As big of a bunch of crooks as they are they're nothing compared to Tether or Microstrategy or.. They were "only" in for about $17B in (artificial inflated backed by nothing but pumped by wash trading and scams and lies just like the rest of crypto "market cap"). No idea when their reckoning will come, but come it will.
 
   / Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet?
  • Thread Starter
#296  
Yeah Coffee is great, he does a lot of good work in this space.

I kind of think of safemoon as relatively small potatoes in this space. As big of a bunch of crooks as they are they're nothing compared to Tether or Microstrategy or.. They were "only" in for about $17B in (artificial inflated backed by nothing but pumped by wash trading and scams and lies just like the rest of crypto "market cap"). No idea when their reckoning will come, but come it will.

Fundamentally, Safemoon commingled trust money with their own money which has been described as a pump and dump scheme, but the charges are commingling customer money with their own money—all of which has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

Strategy held a 2-hour earnings call yesterday that is was super interesting. The convertibles are currently rated as junk but are from 52x to 5.3x over collateralized* but as more and more companies adapt the exact model as Strategy, thereby creating a market segment, the ratings industry will become more familiar with the model and likely eventually rate them as investment grade. Strategy emphasized education and comparison why their bonds are superior to current investment grade and why 144A restrictions have limited retail exposure to the convertible bond market. Moreover, Strategy is in a mature market. If any institutional level investor wanted to short Strategy, then they could call up their I-Banker and have them construct a credit default swap for you to short whatever bond portfolio they wish as I described in my primer on the subject 17 years ago. While credit rating agencies have been slow on the take-up of Strategy's convertible debt, I-Bankers have not and would likely be eager to sell swaps in order to collect money on debt they think will never default. Below, I explain what a Credit Default Swap is, how swaps works, and how they are used to shift risk for speculators.


* While not the most interesting part for me, as part his portion of the call, Saylor shared for the benefit of the skeptics how Strategy's convertible debt would perform if Bitcoin didn't go up over time noting for Strike, their least 5.3x over-collateralized issue, that Bitcoin would need to lose 98% of its value in order for Strategy to not be able to pay the maturity value in 2.5 years.

 
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   / Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet? #297  
Strategy held a 2-hour earnings call yesterday that is was super interesting. The convertibles are currently rated as junk but are from 52x to 5.3x over collateralized* but as more and more companies adapt the exact model as Strategy, thereby creating a market segment, the ratings industry will become more familiar with the model and likely eventually rate them as investment grade.

Maybe some "ratings agencies" that are of the same caliber as the "tether auditors" lol. It's junk. While BTC might be a greater fools game and not strictly a ponzi, MSTR is definitionally a ponzi. He just diluted the shareholders .. again.. and would have to keep doing that repeatedly.. forever to stay above water. It's not sustainable. Having said that it took DECADES for Madoff to go down (although I'm still amazed Saylor managed to escape prison last time he pulled a similar stunt) so timing the failure of this is also a fools game.
 
   / Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet?
  • Thread Starter
#298  
Prove Strategy is a ponzi. You've asserted, but no facts. If it is a ponzi short the common and buy a put-spread while presenting the gospel of $MSTR's ponzi (i.e., talking your book).

Meanwhile, the same Bitcoin treasury reserve strategy as Strategy (formerly known as Microstrategy) is being rapidly adopted by other companies around the world. Here is a growing list of public and private companies that have adopted a Bitcoin reserve strategy. Oh, and yesterday the first "bridgeless" transfer of Bitcoin to Cardano happened.


As one enthusiast put it, "@BTC_OS successfully demoed the first bridgeless transfer of $BTC between #Bitcoin and #Cardano mainnet. Say goodbye to multi-sig bridges that are unsafe and now obsolete."



They're calling it "beaming"

Bitcoin beaming.png


All of this has been telegraphed, but the crazy thing is we're still early because we haven't gotten to the hyperbitcoinization period yet. Hyperbitcoinization and increasing M2 supply are premises that led a Fidelity Director to speculate that Bitcoin may reach $1B a coin by 2038*. Either way more and more investors (small and large) are considering holding Bitcoin generationally even as the technology grows. Even so, futurists are presenting some pretty thoughtful reasons why Bitcoin cannot dominate our solar system if we become a multi-planetary species because of the latency of hash rate between planets. Check it out: Bitcoin Astronomy.

My guess is that in another five years the "normies" will have started to catch on and this has been the subject of people sharing that everybody has another five years to collect 0.01 Bitcoin to create generational wealth. As it is, right now wealth managers are slowly starting to realize that if Bitcoin really is its own asset class, then they must have some Bitcoin exposure. The reason is that if they don't have any Bitcoin exposure then they are net short Bitcoin in their portfolios.






* Fidelity has been closely monitoring the development of Bitcoin more than most TradFi institutions. Jurrien Timmer, Director of Global Macro at Fidelity Investments, thinks the value of a single Bitcoin could reach $1 billion by the year 2038 — 2040.
 
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   / Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet? #299  
I'm curious if anyone besides me thinks all cryptocurrency and especially bitcoin is extremely creepy? Look it up...supposedly started by Satoshi Nakamoto...a pseudonym for someone who doesn't exist, although different people around the world claim they started it. "It", created from nothing and worth nothing but today worth $94.5K/"coin".
No one knows who started it so no accountability. If bitcoin happens to become worthless or any number of malfeasance occurs, who gets the blame?
Everything on planet Earth of value is tangible.
Not cryptocurrency. If you have money in the bank it's FDIC insured. Stock you own a piece of that corporation. Gold, collectibles, antiques, anything of value has a purpose.
Call me ignorant, stupid, old fashioned...anything...but does anyone find crypto insanity?
 
   / Is it too soon to talk about Crypto yet? #300  
I'm curious if anyone besides me thinks all cryptocurrency and especially bitcoin is extremely creepy? Look it up...supposedly started by Satoshi Nakamoto...a pseudonym for someone who doesn't exist, although different people around the world claim they started it. "It", created from nothing and worth nothing but today worth $94.5K/"coin".
No one knows who started it so no accountability. If bitcoin happens to become worthless or any number of malfeasance occurs, who gets the blame?
Everything on planet Earth of value is tangible.
Not cryptocurrency. If you have money in the bank it's FDIC insured. Stock you own a piece of that corporation. Gold, collectibles, antiques, anything of value has a purpose.
Call me ignorant, stupid, old fashioned...anything...but does anyone find crypto insanity?
There is a cultish aspect that people involved in it talk in riddles. Skeptics tend to speak in plain language. Make of that what you will.
 

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