IS the road doctor in
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Re: IS the road doctor in
Gordon I will check out that site and see if i can find any thing. One thing on the this recycled asphalt is it drans very good and holds well but it dos'nt bind like road gravle, but its not near as dusty witch is y i put it down. Now i have had wash board road befor but was able to grade it out. Any one ever use a tiller and grind it all up and start over??
Rich
Gordon I will check out that site and see if i can find any thing. One thing on the this recycled asphalt is it drans very good and holds well but it dos'nt bind like road gravle, but its not near as dusty witch is y i put it down. Now i have had wash board road befor but was able to grade it out. Any one ever use a tiller and grind it all up and start over??
Rich
TomG
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Re: IS the road doctor in
There's a strip of township road around the corner of a T-intersection in the middle of a mild slope that does the same thing. For what it's worth, the township with road graders, dozers and dump trucks hasn't solved the problem either. They grade it down, the wash-board is back in a few weeks. They spread gravel, it comes back. They scrape the gravel off grading it some more, it's back. More gravel, and so on.
It seems to be a mystery, and I suspect that Gordon is right, changing the base and the drainage would solve the problem. However, money for that much work probably isn't in the Roads Budget. Besides, us locals know enough to slow down around that corner. Guess it's a problem for everyone else though.
Around here, gravel means glacier deposit. It's a mixture of sand and small rock. The amount of sand and the size of rock depend on which pit it comes from. The stuff packs well, and the sand washes out. A decent layer of rock is left on the surface. Once packed, the surface is pretty durable and fairly erosion resistant. That's what's on my drives, and it hasn't wash boarded or required much maintenance. I did put 4" flex drain over the side in several places where some erosion started. I used the same stuff to build up a pad for our construction trailer.
What I grew up calling gravel, or pea gravel, is called crushed rock here. Crushed rock doesn't pack well and it doesn't freeze solid. In general, it's not very desirable stuff to have on a drive, especially if a blower or blade is used for snow removal.
We've got plenty of glacier deposit here, and it's used for maintaining highway shoulders and fills. It does seriously erode in some areas where there are no drains. Maintenance crews just fill in the erosion channels with more gravel. I notice that they have started using ground asphalt some places. It doesn't look that the ground asphalt is much more durable than plain gravel. It seems erodes around and under the asphalt.
There's a strip of township road around the corner of a T-intersection in the middle of a mild slope that does the same thing. For what it's worth, the township with road graders, dozers and dump trucks hasn't solved the problem either. They grade it down, the wash-board is back in a few weeks. They spread gravel, it comes back. They scrape the gravel off grading it some more, it's back. More gravel, and so on.
It seems to be a mystery, and I suspect that Gordon is right, changing the base and the drainage would solve the problem. However, money for that much work probably isn't in the Roads Budget. Besides, us locals know enough to slow down around that corner. Guess it's a problem for everyone else though.
Around here, gravel means glacier deposit. It's a mixture of sand and small rock. The amount of sand and the size of rock depend on which pit it comes from. The stuff packs well, and the sand washes out. A decent layer of rock is left on the surface. Once packed, the surface is pretty durable and fairly erosion resistant. That's what's on my drives, and it hasn't wash boarded or required much maintenance. I did put 4" flex drain over the side in several places where some erosion started. I used the same stuff to build up a pad for our construction trailer.
What I grew up calling gravel, or pea gravel, is called crushed rock here. Crushed rock doesn't pack well and it doesn't freeze solid. In general, it's not very desirable stuff to have on a drive, especially if a blower or blade is used for snow removal.
We've got plenty of glacier deposit here, and it's used for maintaining highway shoulders and fills. It does seriously erode in some areas where there are no drains. Maintenance crews just fill in the erosion channels with more gravel. I notice that they have started using ground asphalt some places. It doesn't look that the ground asphalt is much more durable than plain gravel. It seems erodes around and under the asphalt.
roysallis
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Re: IS the road doctor in
richh,
It may help to put down some filter cloth and then put new material on top of it.
richh,
It may help to put down some filter cloth and then put new material on top of it.
ERNIEB
Platinum Member
Re: IS the road doctor in
You do have a puzzle there. As has been pointed out, materials can vary from one place to another, and the common names can vary, something that is a BIG problem for me. Around here the material of choice for driveways is crushed limestone in the form of what is called road base. It is usually screened out as 1 3/4 to dust or 3/4 to dust , it also is farther classified through a series of tests as #1, #2, and so on. #1 meeting much tighter specs. than #2. Pit run is usually just dug straight out of the ground, and because there can be large variations, it is the cheapest and most inferior stuff you can put down.
One thing I didn't think about until I saw TomG's message is freezing. Man, I live in South Texas that sort of thing just never happens here.
The most common problem I see with the do it yourself driveway builders around here is they tend to put the material down too thin. But this usually leads to pot holes, something you said you didn't have. Also you mentioned a crown.
If I really wanted to get rid of the problem, this is what I would do. I would go to the nearest location where a state road, or better still an interstate highway is being built, I would see how deep they are going on their subgrade, see what kind of material they are using for their base, and if possible even find out where they are getting it from. A nice road contractor or highway dept. person can provide the same info. For the sake of economy I would go just to the offending spot and duplicate as closely as possible what they were doing. Minus the black top of course. I would think that should solve it.
You do have a puzzle there. As has been pointed out, materials can vary from one place to another, and the common names can vary, something that is a BIG problem for me. Around here the material of choice for driveways is crushed limestone in the form of what is called road base. It is usually screened out as 1 3/4 to dust or 3/4 to dust , it also is farther classified through a series of tests as #1, #2, and so on. #1 meeting much tighter specs. than #2. Pit run is usually just dug straight out of the ground, and because there can be large variations, it is the cheapest and most inferior stuff you can put down.
One thing I didn't think about until I saw TomG's message is freezing. Man, I live in South Texas that sort of thing just never happens here.
The most common problem I see with the do it yourself driveway builders around here is they tend to put the material down too thin. But this usually leads to pot holes, something you said you didn't have. Also you mentioned a crown.
If I really wanted to get rid of the problem, this is what I would do. I would go to the nearest location where a state road, or better still an interstate highway is being built, I would see how deep they are going on their subgrade, see what kind of material they are using for their base, and if possible even find out where they are getting it from. A nice road contractor or highway dept. person can provide the same info. For the sake of economy I would go just to the offending spot and duplicate as closely as possible what they were doing. Minus the black top of course. I would think that should solve it.
gordon
Veteran Member
Re: IS the road doctor in
Rich I don't know if I would try a tiller on that. I just talked a man out of using the asphalt millings on his drive. Why---he doesn't have enough of a good base and it would be potholed by middle of winter he drives a schoolbus and so does his wife. Anyway they almost fainted at the price I gave them for redoing their 500' drive. They had no idea what the materials alone would cost and were very honest with me they couldn't afford it. So they are in for a long winter some of the potholes in the drive were a foot deep. The drive had a mix of topsoil, select fill, crusher run, fill dirt and oyster shells what a mess. They used alittle of this and alittle of that but not enough of anything right.
Oh yea here is another link on acess road building might have some info for you as well. http://willow.ncfes.umn.edu/accessroads/accessroads.htm
Gordon
Rich I don't know if I would try a tiller on that. I just talked a man out of using the asphalt millings on his drive. Why---he doesn't have enough of a good base and it would be potholed by middle of winter he drives a schoolbus and so does his wife. Anyway they almost fainted at the price I gave them for redoing their 500' drive. They had no idea what the materials alone would cost and were very honest with me they couldn't afford it. So they are in for a long winter some of the potholes in the drive were a foot deep. The drive had a mix of topsoil, select fill, crusher run, fill dirt and oyster shells what a mess. They used alittle of this and alittle of that but not enough of anything right.
Oh yea here is another link on acess road building might have some info for you as well. http://willow.ncfes.umn.edu/accessroads/accessroads.htm
Gordon
Re: IS the road doctor in
Hey Gordon what a great link! Thanks alot. I didn't have much time to spend thier but i sent for a hard copy it looks to be good reading for this winter. This spring i got another 40 thats land locked to the 80 i had and its about 4o% low lots of ceader and spruce so i want to get a main road in there next year if time permits and it looks like this info may help. I think i mite give the road a lite grind job with the tiller this week end if we get some rain go down maybe 2" or so and take the wash out-a the board. will say out of the pit run, i have no wishes to have a rock-picking party ever agin! When you spoke of those folks with the 500' drive it brought back things i would rather forget. When we built the road i had a guy with a D8 come and push out about 800 to 1000 yds. of pit run and then i hauled and hauled for days with a 6- 8 yd dump and this was on the property so it was only about 1 mile, and i thought we would never get done. i would guess that there is 6 to 12" of pit run at the bottom. If i ever have to o that agin im going to get a biger truck. no ifs or ands. It sounds like they mite have to do he same thing!
Rich
Hey Gordon what a great link! Thanks alot. I didn't have much time to spend thier but i sent for a hard copy it looks to be good reading for this winter. This spring i got another 40 thats land locked to the 80 i had and its about 4o% low lots of ceader and spruce so i want to get a main road in there next year if time permits and it looks like this info may help. I think i mite give the road a lite grind job with the tiller this week end if we get some rain go down maybe 2" or so and take the wash out-a the board. will say out of the pit run, i have no wishes to have a rock-picking party ever agin! When you spoke of those folks with the 500' drive it brought back things i would rather forget. When we built the road i had a guy with a D8 come and push out about 800 to 1000 yds. of pit run and then i hauled and hauled for days with a 6- 8 yd dump and this was on the property so it was only about 1 mile, and i thought we would never get done. i would guess that there is 6 to 12" of pit run at the bottom. If i ever have to o that agin im going to get a biger truck. no ifs or ands. It sounds like they mite have to do he same thing!
Rich
