It Lasted......

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   / It Lasted......
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#21  
RaT; I do think he's gone. You're right, he was looking at a M9000 'bota. He was saying a year ago how things had changed and how he was getting frustrated with it. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
   / It Lasted...... #22  
You're absolutely correct; dangerous information needs to be countered. That has always happened; most of the experienced posters know how to do it without stepping on toes. It takes a little tact.

The kind of wrong information I was referring to is things like the now-famous "$600 50 hour check" remark. While wrong, it's not important, won't hurt anyone, and doesn't need to be corrected. Correcting things like that simply hijacks the thread and gets everyone all upset.

When I first signed up for TBN it was while I was in the process of buying a tractor. I asked for advice, and got lots of it. That's what TBN is famous for. Some of it was wrong. For the most part, I was able to pick out the stuff that didn't make logical sense, and I took ALL of the advice with a grain of salt, not totally relying on a single thing I learned here. Thus, any mistakes I made in the purchase were my own, and I was prepared to take full responsibility. (Fortunately, I didn't make any mistakes; my purchase was perfect /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ).

The point is, while it's annoying to have a few people insist that their Belarus Omniverous 9000 is the perfect choice for cutting grass on a golf course in one thread and perfect for digging a new Panama Canal in another, it really doesn't need to be corrected. Let it go.

TBN has changed in TWO ways. There are more inexperienced people who insist on giving the same advice to everyone whether it's appropriate or not; BUT there are also more of the experienced members who seem to have developed thin skins and less tolerance than I remember when I was new and made a couple of posting mistakes...
 
   / It Lasted...... #23  
When I was first researching my tractor, and after I bought it, I was very much into the whole thing. I posted a lot, and read a lot. Eventually, I became very irratated at (mostly a few) people - both those who were new to both the board and tractors and made no attempt to either read older posts, or to spend a little time and think about what they were asking, and other posters (some prolific) who were extremely opinionated and often arrogant and offensive. Additionally, there is a certain type of person that shows up on most large boards, that think their opinion is more valuable than others purely by virture of the number of posts they make. In reality, I could post 30 times a day, and still have my head up my a$$ - and indeed I may. It is important to remember that just because someone has just made their first post does not mean they were just born. They may in fact be very knowledgable and experienced.

I realized that it was just a message board, and regardless of what someone else might think of the tractor I bought, the projects I do with it, or me personally, it didn't change the reality of my tractor, and its relationship with the rest of my life. There are an awful lot of things that are more important than this message board or any tractor. So I stopped posting for a long while. Now I only get on now and then, and don't post much. I try to give useful advice, and I don't much care who agrees with it. I find I can still post a specifc question and usually get reasonable advice. Good enough for me!

Last remeber, some of the people who pass through and are gone have simply come to the conclusion they were spending too much time on TBN. And they probely were.
 
   / It Lasted...... #24  
Some people have PM'd me asking to send them a example of a internet troll. Can you help me find a few and post them here? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / It Lasted...... #25  
Here's a link to my favorite definition.

In the context of TBN, the level of "trollness" is usually lower. Basically, look for anyone who seems to want to be argumentative, who tends to turn the subject of a thread into an argument, who challenges peoples posts, and who otherwise gets people upset without really contributing anything to the original thread.

Many trolls identify themselves as devil's advocates or as advocates for truth and accuracy, but they can be identified as trolls if they seem to have the goal of breaking the status quo. In a moderated forum like TBN, they may often profess an inability to understand or accept the moderation.

Essentially, they are not part of the culture of the forum but often attempt to creat a counter-culture.

Anything that disrupts the forum for existing members can be considered trollness, if that's a word.
 
   / It Lasted...... #26  
Don,

Your link above regarding trolls was wonderful. It certainly does describe the entire spectrum of behavior that caused the initiation of this thread and similiar threads. I wish there was some way to have this be part of the FAQs. Understanding this behavior makes it less irritating to me.
 
   / It Lasted...... #27  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Here's a link to my favorite definition. -Don )</font>

Excellent! All new posters should be asked to read that.

Long ago a favorite BBS moderator posted:

"Think before you post. Please be neither excessively annoying, or excessively annoyed."
 
   / It Lasted...... #28  
Don, I have always understood a troll to be someone who deliberately tries to start an argument, but not necessarily to take part in it. He just watches and 'enjoys' the show. The term troll is derived from trolling, as in trolling for suckers. I really don't think that is happening on TBN.

On usenet, where the term likely as not originated, it is common to see a post that says, "Please don't feed the trolls." In other words, don't respond to this thread/post that was obviously made to start a flame war.

I can't recall ever seeing such a post on TBN, nor can I find one in the archives.

In short, I don't think we have a problem with trolls here. We may have a problem with lack of courtesy in some cases, but I don't think we can fairly classify these folks as trolls.
 
   / It Lasted...... #29  
That's one definition for a troll, that it comes from fishing or "trolling" for people to respond. Personally, I favor the other definition, that of the mischevous and occasionally evil characters who live under bridges and like to disrupt things. The first definition is too limiting, in that it suggests a specific behavior, as you describe. the other definition definitely covers some of the behqavior I've seen on TBN.

The key to your definition is the word "deliberately". I think it's entirely possible to BE a troll without ever realizing it.

The difference between my observations and some others is that I have sween the disruptive behavior both on the part of newbies and on the part of experienced posters who should know better, but have not previously had to contend with behavior outside the group think.

I understand "Feeding the Trolls" to be a response to them in any fashion. It's always better to let it go.
 
   / It Lasted...... #30  
I had a perfect example of a TROLL, but a few people started to "feed" the troll...... then I made a reply explaining the trolls behavior and how he has been told many times by many people that his postings were poor quality, and that quantity didn't make up for dribble. Unfortunately, before others could read it, it and all the trolls posting were deleted. Guess that I am guilty of feeding the troll also for giving the explanation to the others.... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
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