Tiller Japanese Tillers

fishstixtwo · Mar 15, 2003

I am in the market for a used tiller. I am probably going to buy a japanese unit. I recently saw one dealer's add stating that tillers were discarded in japan because they are designed to work in mud, and would not work in our soil. Any thoughts on this?

Steve_in_Ont · Mar 15, 2003

Rich - I have heard the same thing. I guess the land that they tend to farm has been tilled for a long time, and has very few rocks.

A year ago, I looked at a few, and most did not even have a sheer pin or clutch.

I would think that it boils down to what type of soil you are going to use yours in...

Anonymous Poster · Mar 15, 2003

<font color="blue"> I recently saw one dealer's add stating that tillers were discarded in japan because they are designed to work in mud, and would not work in our soil. Any thoughts on this?
</font>

I think that dealer should run for Congress! I've read that six times and I still don't know what that dealer was saying! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

In Japan there is as much dirt as mud. I have seen those tillers working in the rice paddies...and have seen a lot of soil that was obviously turned with a tiller too. I have no idea if the same tine design is used, or if there are differences in design between a rice paddy tiller and an earth tiller.

But I can tell you with certainty that Japanese farmers do a lot more than just grow things in mud, under water...

And turning mud did look like a very light duty application...

Can't really help with your question, except to say that there is a lot of dry soil tilled by something in Japan. Anyone that thinks all that is grown in Japan is rice is not on target. No doubt in my mind that tillers used in dirt there would work in dirt here as well.

Are you looking at a "grey market" tiller? If so the real question is: Is there a difference between a tiller that is used in a rice paddy and a tiller used in dirt in Japan".

If there is a difference, you probably would be wise to get one that is designed for dirt.

normde2001 · Mar 15, 2003

Although I have had no personal experience with Japanese tillers, I have heard they are very good and reasonably priced. One Japanese exporter, SANKO, says they ship one with every tractor, so there should be a lot of them out there.

Bird · Mar 15, 2003

A neighbor bought what he thinks is a Yanmar at auction for $250. Says it works just fine and the reason he isn't sure it's a Yanmar is because most of the decals are worn off and what's left is in Japanese which he can't read. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Inspector507 · Mar 15, 2003

The Yanmar tiller that I have, has different tines than what you'd see on a domestic unit. The ones sold here from what I've seen have, an "L" shaped tine. Where as mine are shaped more like a hand sickle blade, curved somewhat bent. I have used it for 2 years now in my garden and the neighbors. I think it works great. Tills about 8" deep. I have mostly clay here to use it on, and couldn't be happier. Beats a front tine walk behind thats gathering dust in the shed /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anonymous Poster · Mar 15, 2003

I too saw this characterization of Japanese tillers recently.

My comment to the CFO (who just LOVES hearing all about tractors 24/7 /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) is that if the dealer is importing their own container loads from Japan, leaving the tillers behind could mean at least one more tractor per load; and I'll bet the margin on the tractors is higher than on the tillers. Mind you this is just a guess based on zero personal tractor experience /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif, and even if true, doesn't imply that what the dealer in question says isn't.

fishstixtwo · Mar 15, 2003

This will be a grey market tiller that I plan to purchace. Will be looking for a Yanmar brand to use on my 180D. I know there have been a lot of them imported. This is why I don't understand why anyone would make a statement like that. I guess I will just ignore it and continue my search as planned.
Thank all of you for your help.

Turfman · Mar 16, 2003

Good luck in your search. If you find the truth, post it. We'd all like to know.

stnickstoys · Mar 16, 2003

fishstix,
I have used several of the grey market tillers, yanmar, iseki and mistsubishi. The land I bought is heavy clay soil with a thin loam layer on top. I tilled down 4 acres of alfalfa sod to make my lawn and the tillers worked great! First pass is slow and chews it up, second pass pulverizes and does a really nice job preparing seed beds. I am the most popular guy in the neighborhood in the spring. I till a lot of gardens.
My two cents worth!
Nick

fishstixtwo · Mar 16, 2003

It does seem logical that these tillers do work well in our soil, If they didn't there would be a lot of ticked off people who bought them. I still can't help but wonder why a dealer would make a comment like that. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Anonymous Poster · Mar 16, 2003

I did happen to find this web page;

The tiller pictured has the look I associate with the tillers on grey market tractors, including the sickle shaped blade noted previously in this thread. But that bottom picture certainly isn't a flooded paddy.

The two phrases that seem to relate to this discussion are "greater adaptability to hard soil' and "rotary tiller paddy field vehicle".

The stumbling block in making use of this is understanding what is meant by "hard soil". Is this term being used in the way we would, to indicate soil types that are particularly in contrast to other soil types? Or does in mean solid earth as opposed to muddy conditions? Is this research significantly different than that which might be undertaken to improve a domestic tillers "adaptability to hard soil"?

As usual, I provide no answers /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif but enjoy it all anyway /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Taylortractornut · Mar 17, 2003

My neighbor has to have the newest toys aroaund, we took dads YM3000 and his 5 foot yanmar tiller thats been used so much the sheet metal has holes worn in it and my neighbor took his 950 J and new Howard rotovater after telling my his dealer said they wer inferior. We set out tilling a garden and he couldnt tell the different sections that i tilled from his. Then i told him what i gave for it 200 dollars and he got ill over my inferior tiller worked good as his

gws · Mar 17, 2003

I have a nice yanmar tiller on the back of my yanmar tractor. Works great. The tines are similar size and shape to just about every US made tiller so I am betting the rumor is to keep you from bying the $300 japaneese tiller instead of the $800 us tiller.

gbirky · Mar 17, 2003

I don't know what type of soil you plan to till, but I can tell you that I have tilled very rocky soil with my Yanmar imported tillers (I currently have 3 tractors and 3 tillers). They all work very well. I even loaned one of the tractors and tillers to a friend who used it to till very hard clay with lots of rocks. Man did that tiller bounce and make noise - I could even see sparks under the tiller while it was working. It never broke or had any other problems except that the shaking was so violent that one of the large (~1 inch diameter) mounting pins came out and got lost in the tillage somewhere.

Personally, I wouldn't use the tiller to do this kind of work and I would never loan it out for the same kind of use again. But the point is that the tiller and tractor stood up to the task without any mechanical problems. The tillers are rather large for the tractor sizes - the 13 (engine) hp tractors have 1 meter (3ft) wide tillers, the 16 (engine) hp tractor has a 1.2 meter (just under 4ft) tiller.

I think you just need to be aware that the Japanese gray market import tillers are not built as heavy as one built for the U.S., and you need to take it slow and easy - especially on the first pass. They are a fantastic value for the money - usually around $100/ft of width for one in good condition.

yonahforge · Mar 17, 2003

I've got a Yanmar tiller behind my Iseki tractor. Have no complaints on the tiller, other than I had to do some work on the PTO shaft to get it to fit. I have heavy clay soil with plenty of rocks and I haven't torn anything up. The best part was the price - $300. I don't use it every day, if I did I'm not sure I wouldn't use it until it fell apart then buy another one. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jeff

race_engr · Mar 19, 2003

Are you guys referring to 3 pt or 2 pt tillers?? A local dealer has 2 Yanmar 1401's with tillers, but they are 2 pt. I have a Yanmar YM180D with Cat. 1 3 pt. Can the tiller be made to fit my standard 3 pt hookup??

Regards,
Brian

yonahforge · Mar 19, 2003

My tiller is a 3 point. When I bought my tiller they had a couple of 2 point tillers. I glanced at them but don't have a clue what it would take to convert them, or if you could. If it were me I'd just find a 3 point tiller. Most of the importers have a few sitting around.

Jeff

voodoo · Mar 19, 2003

I have a Kubota B6000 (12hp) with 2 pt 3ft wide factory fitted tiller. [Now my second tractor and only used for tilling duties].

As has been mentioned these have curved "knives" which cut into the ground. Tractor has 3 speed pto for tiller work.
On heavy clay un-tilled sod, I have to make several passes with tiller at lowest speed. The nature of the cutting action does not always lift and turn the sod out. It could be 4 or 5 runs, increasing pto speed every other time before I would have a workable soil. It is only the top pto speed which pulverises' to a reasonably fine tilth.

The advantage is that the design requires less hp to operate the tiller and by their shape are not affected by stones and the like as with standard tiller cutters. The tiller will bounce over stones and bury them slightly rather than fighting and bringing them to the surface.

Having used a 7ft "Howard" rotovator behind a Ford 4000 for many years, they are nowhere near as good for producing a fine powdery tilth. However I believe the design and operation makes them more robust and less prone to operational damage. That's why they can be directly bolted to pto housing and do not have shear pins or slip clutches.

Don't be afraid to buy and use one, but beware that they do not operate in the same way and do not produce the same results.

As always, it will depend on the reason you want to till and the finish you require.

Will · Mar 20, 2003

Here's a picture of a Japanese rice paddy. They have super lightweight tractors for going through the mud. They use the more typical CUTs for working the soil when it is much drier. The next picture shows a close up of the tractor.