JD 14T baler with small tractor

[Tx Jim]

zzvyb6
You can explain your theory any way you choose to but I still think stroke shock ""isn't eliminated by flywheel"" on a small sq baler. If shock was eliminated engine rpm's would remain constant which they don't even when I pull my sq baler with my 120 pto hp tractor. On subject of engines with/without balancer shafts how many different 4 cylinder tractor engines can you name that don't have balancer shafts?? What's your definition of a long rod to crank pin ratio?
Jim

 

[conkli48]

I would love to see the little 1025 bailing. We use an allis chalmers d15 About 45 -50 hp had a jd 214t bailer, then got a 336 as the 214 was getting worn out. We never had a lack of power with the allis, on a few occasions we used a massey ferguson 35 to power it just fine when the d15 was out of commission. But if the baler is small. I think the biggest hurdle is trying to pull the wagon as well. When you add a wagon with 100 + bales behind the baler. Thats alot going on. So a smaller tractor kicking on the ground i think would be just fine. Problem is how small, the 1025 may be 25 hp motor, but its rear end and pto assembally was probably never designed to handle much. When i bought my first personal tractor, I looked at the kioti ck2510 and ck2610. Both have similar horse power, but the ck2610 had larger rear end and weighed a couple hundred more lbs. The ck series goes up to 35 hp and even 40 hp in the same frame tractor. Just tuned differently. The 2510 is more suited to lawn and garden chores. The ck 26 and above Is better for ground engagment. I do think the ck 2610 would handle the load of a baler better does that mean i will ever use it, if i get into my own baling at my house. Probably not, there are too many cheap options on craigslist for older 60s era tractors like a wd 45, d15, farmal m, massey 65, and more. I have seen fair amount for under 3000 grand, So that is what i would do, you hate to have another tractor but why wear out your newer tractor, you could easily pay for bigger tractor in the end by bailing more hay and even selling a bit. On a side note, I now know compact round bailers exists. for use in tractors with as low as 15 hp, but they are expensive and not as easy to sell or handle as a small square.

 

[zzvyb6]

Rod to stroke ratio: Higher the number (longer connecting rod) means less side loading on the piston), which for balers means top and bottom plunger loading. and more power to the charge.

 

[Tx Jim]

Rod to stroke ratio: Higher the number (longer connecting rod) means less side loading on the piston), which for balers means top and bottom plunger loading. and more power to the charge.View attachment 511845

And I suppose this post is intended to explain your theory of how flywheel eliminates shock of PH compressing hay?????? Maybe someone else understands your post but I sure don't!!!!!
Have a nice day,
Jim

 

[powerscol]

Tx Jim

You up for a simple experiment? If you happen to have an old wheel and axle around (bicycle tire will work great) Get is spinning with hands both sides and and move it up and down - like the plunger would be in line to the side of the flywheel. Should move fairly easily. Now spin it up again and try and move it sideways fast. You should notice a lot more resistance to you movement. With my bobcat and Hesston 4550 I do get a for and back rocking motion (not jerking) and I also get a pulse in the RPM at full stroke, which is normal as the plunger moves back and forth loaded and unloaded. This also varies with the density of the windrow With the side pickup bailer as it was offset, added a third sideways jolt. Until you actually hook up and inline and try it, understanding can be a bit foggy. I don't know if 100% of the plunger inertia is counter acted by the flywheel inertia, but it is one hack of a lot.

 

[Tx Jim]

powerscol
In reference to your bicycle tire experiment I can't do it because I'm disabled(nerve damage) and the left side of my body barely functions. But if flywheel on a conventional sq baler absorbs the shock wouldn't engine rpm's remain constant say 2200 rpm's????? I have absolutely no experience(knowledge) of an in-line baler BUT this thread originated about a JD 14T not an inline baler.

 

[dieselcrawler]

I think a fair explanation of the flywheel would be like a shock absorber... it is going to take a lot of the pulsating force out of the pto drive train, but not going to eliminate it entirely. The smaller the tractor driving the baler, the more that pluse will be felt, and the higher the likelihood of driveline damage.

 

[Tx Jim]

I think a fair explanation of the flywheel would be like a shock absorber... it is going to take a lot of the pulsating force out of the pto drive train, but not going to eliminate it entirely. The smaller the tractor driving the baler, the more that pluse will be felt, and the higher the likelihood of driveline damage.

I agree with your statement. I was taught way back when I was employed by a JD dealer that slip clutch on a JD sq baler should slip a little bit every time plunger head compressed the hay.

 

[zzvyb6]

Lets see if this helps:

The tractor engine's rpm ought to slow down and then speed up as the plunger drives home a bale flake in the bale chamber and pulls out. It does so because the shearing force of cutting and forming the flake takes power AND the push through force for the other flakes packed into the forming bale PLUS the formed bales in the back of the bale chamber takes power. This power is provided by the tractor driveline and the kinetic energy in the flywheel. I can't remember what the power ratio is but lets say 50% from each. If the rpm change is large (due to insufficient tractor power, large shearing force at the knives (wet hay), or too much resistance (restrictors too tight, too many bales in the following stream, etc.) Then a shock (technically called a 'jerk') occurs and the shear bolt will shear.

Now on my 14T, a wet hay plug will cause a shear bolt to fracture, but because of the (poor IMHO drive-line design), the flywheel potential energy will be disconnected but the drive-line will still be fully engaged until the slip clutch feels the jerk, too.

Also, on my 14T the shear bolts can be loose in the holes even though the nuts are tight because of the side slop. The a shear bolt may break even though no jerk occurs. The only way I can find this out is by paying careful attention to the rpm changes during bale formation (much higher than normal because now the tractor must provide 100% of the plunger force), and/or when stopping, the auger and plunger immediately stop while the flywheel keeps on turning for a few minutes. I have found that only official JD baler shear bolts with the fat shoulders and skinny thread areas work as required. Other brands don't work so good, and regular TSC bolts don't work well at all.

I believe that on NH balers the shear bolts disconnect the entire drive-line, not just the flywheel, but putting it all back together is a problem because you have to realign all the shafts and install a bolt before you can back out the plunger to remove the plug. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

No comment on the loose slip clutch procedure, I've heard that, too, but my JD baler 'teacher' (RIP Don Lauer), said no. As the clutch wears, your bale length will change and that causes problems will my NH stack wagon.

 

[Tx Jim]

Slip clutch slipping a small amount on JD sq baler when compressing hay with each plunger head stroke will have no affect on bale length. Slip clutch not slipping slightly on compression stroke can cause premature flywheel shear bolt failure. Bale length is determined by measuring wheel & associated parts.