JD 14T - did I completely kill it?

[Hiptfarms]

So last year I bought a 14T baler that had been reportedly sitting in a shed for 20 years or so. The guy I got it from bought it from his neighbor and he couldn't get it to work at all. I had to replace a tire and tube before I even made it home. I finally brought it home and replaced most of the springs in it. I also sharpened the knives and tried to clean up the billhooks as much as I could. I managed to get it to tie a few tiny bales so I thought it would behave itself when I took it out to try to bale for the first time this year. Long story short, the left knotter was tying fine but before I knew it, the right side knotter frame broke - in 2 places. I have the piece for one break but not hte other. In both places where the breaks occurred there were holes tapped through the frame. As far as I can tell, the twine must have built up around the billhook and was not being wiped off so it put too much pressure on the right side knotter which resulted in the breaks. The needles are not broken, however.

So, have I completely killed the old baler before I even got started good? Is the knotter frame still available or is it like looking for - forgive the pun- a needle in a haystack? Is it a major pain to replace this part if it is available? This is my first baler experience. I was pleased to have made as much progress as I already did but I'm wondering if this has now become a "parts" baler or if it is still has potential.

Advise please.

 

[zzvyb6]

The knotter frames are common to several models of JD and other brands of balers. In fact, on my 14T, I have a brazed 14T (repaired) frame on one side and a 336 frame on the other. It's really no big deal to change them out if you are even just partially handy. The problem is that you might have great hay out there in a raked windrow just yearning to be baled AND its going to rain tomorrow.

Shop on eBay or local scrap or junk yards for parts (or a dealer). The real issue is why it crapped out. The wiper arms should be scraping the partially completed knot off of the billhook.

Check out the terrific knotter theory and description of operation posted by New Holland on YouTube. I'm betting that the frame(s) cracked because of a plunger hit while the needles were entering or leaving the knotter area. That's a timing issue. Either you jumped a chain or it was poorly timed to start with. Also, if the needle lift arm pins break, they won't retract and BOOM !. That can be caused by a plug of wet hay and failure of the plunger stop mechanism. If the needle brake is loose, then the needles can wander back into the bale chamber. This also makes a BOOM noise. Stay posted and get us some pictures. Its Knot the kiss of Death, just a plunge into the world of repair, welding, finger blisters, greasy pants, a good set of wrenches and some cussing. But, there won't be any slivers from wooden parts. I HATE slivers.

 

[Hiptfarms]

Does anyone happen to have a list of what makes and models of baler have the same knotter frame as the 14T?

Here is as photo that shows the two places where the break occurred. And another of the bill hook that broke off.

 

[zzvyb6]

It looks to me like it hasn't seen any grease in a LONG time. As in the reason it failed was because the billhook shaft was frozen in place. Those intermittent gears, chain and other pieces usually are shined up and free to move.

There are sets of parts on eBay for you but I'm not sure whether the replacement parts will solve your problem if the machine has been neglected for so very long (usually from being left outside all year). Did you ever turn it over by hand a few times and trip the knotter to see if it could complete a cycle ? This is usually done without twine or hay present in order to check the movement of all the parts.

 

[Hiptfarms]

I did turn it over by hand multiple times last year and a couple times this year. I actually got it to tie a couple tiny bales last year on both sides after I had replaced a bunch of springs. ( I also had to bend the tucker finger shaft. I replaced the springs on the lower hay dogs and the upper hay dogs, the springs on the needle brake, and the spring in the tucker finger shaft area, the plunger head safety stop spring and the pickup idler spring. I also changed the gear oil.).

As far as it being left outside, I had it stored under a shed and was told it had been kept under a barn/shed for about 20 years before the other fellow got it. Usually down here things look seriously rusted if they've been out for any amount of time. Of course I can't verify the conditions under which it was kept before I acquired it. So about the status of the knotters, is there any way to "shine " up the pieces besides extensive use?

I'm still hoping this thing may become a serviceable member of my farm team...you know ...to feed the team of horses that beautify my pasture. My draft horse sure does like to eat hay!

 

[zzvyb6]

I suspect that knotter frames are even common among different brands, but the 14T, 24T and 336 models all seem to share the parts that are broken. Or, you can try to have them welded back together. If there is a shop nearby that can weld cast iron, you are in business.

I have seen a few balers where the knotter parts were brazed. But, determining the cause of the break(s) will be high priority.

One the machine is back in shape, it will deliver good quality bales for you for a long time.

There are quite a few YouTube videos posted showing how its all supposed to work. If you are only doing a few thousand bales per year, getting it fixed is the best way out IMHO. Almost the same thing happened to me about 30 years ago from hay that was too wet. The needle lift link broke it's pins and the needles were struck by the plunger. Broken frames AND needles. A fellow came down from a local JD dealership (Don Lauer, now deceased), knocked on my door on the Sunday morning after the crash at 7:30 a.m. and said just a few words to me: "It'll tie now" and left. He never even tried it with a tractor hookup or hay being picked up. I will never forget Don, he was their 'baler man'. Its been running perfectly for the past 30 years and only missing a tie when I hit a bump in the field or join the next twine ball poorly. Mine is a 1953 model.

 

[Hiptfarms]

Wow! That's a great story about the gentleman repairing your baler.

I plan on less than a thousand bales per year for sure.

I have a friend who owns an ornamental iron shop so I'll check with him about brazing it. I just thought if I could figure out what other balers have the same frame then I'd have a better chance of finding one should the frame not be repairable.

Thanks for all your input and encouragement. I really appreciate it.

 

[Tx Jim]

The needle lift link broke it's pins and the needles were struck by the plunger. Broken frames AND needles.

I have a bit of trivia;
One correction to your story. The plungerhead can't touch the needles therefore can't break the needles even if baler gets out of time. What can/will break needles is an obstruction such as hay or limb that gets between plungerhead face & needles. JD 336 balers have a history of the PH crankshaft pin not get greased enough therefore shearing off the attaching cotter key letting CS pin slide out enough to bend/break a needle.

 

[zzvyb6]

Technically true, but under what circumstances would you be in where there was not a nice thick flake of hay about to be packed against the rest of the fresh bale ? This means the plunger headspace is filled and the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle is about toe be disproved. Two things will try to occupy the same place at the same time.

If the plunger stop lever is choked with chaff or the spring is shot, and the lift link has separated, there's gonna be a needle strike. I'm not aware of people baling air, so I embellished the truth with some local factoids.

 

[Tx Jim]

Irregardless of your Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle I just wanted readers to know the plungerhead doesn't come in contact with the needles for them to get bent/broken.