JD 4024 wont start!

[greenmojo]

Merry Christmas!

Quick background with as many details as I can provide.

I have a JD 4024 model 30kw generator that we use with our off-grid home.

Everything was good, I took a fuel tank to town for diesel and filled it with 250 gallons, brought it home and only put about 25 gallons in the generators base fuel tank before getting distracted, moving on and going inside.

Around midnight, I heard the generator struggling, almost like it was running out of fuel. Idling up, then down and fighting, then finally shutting down.

I verified there is plenty of fuel in the tank, manually cranked it over and started it, but as soon as the load picked up, it struggled and died. After some trying and quite a bit of cranking, I got it to idle again, but shorty after a minute or two, it died.

I believed it was a fuel issue, possibly a filter dirty or maybe water in the fuel. This morning replaced the filter, primed the filter with new diesel and it still wouldnt fire. It turns over, it just wont go. I even drained the bottom 5 gallons out of the tank incase it was water / contaminated.

I called Pape machinery, they sent a tech up, and he discovered the the fuel transfer pump had failed and he believed that to be the issue. I ordered one, but in the mean time he said I could use a universal fuel transfer pump to provide fuel until tomorrow. He recommended a 10 to 15 psi pump, however all I could find in town was a 9 psi pump.

I installed the 9 psi pump, verified that diesel was making it into the filter, bled and primed everything, and it still wont start. Just turns over, but no go.

Last thing I tried this evening was to pump the priming handle while it was cranking and for a few seconds it seemed like it wanted to to, it sped up, sounded like a couple of cylinders were doing something, but it just wont start.

I pick up the new correct fuel pump in several hours, but Im doubting it will fix the problem, since the universal one didnt have any effect. Any thoughts?

Does that 9 psi pump just not have enough pressure for the engine to start?!

I have no idea where to look next. Ive accidentally run it out of diesel before, and all it took was a little priming and a minute of cranking and it was back alive. Just stumped.

Thank you for reading!

 

[seville009]

I’m no mechanic, but I wouldn’t doubt that the small difference in psi between the pumps could be the sole problem.

It’s possible that you got bad fuel, but I assume that you already had old fuel in the generator before adding new fuel (so you don’t have 100% new fuel that you’re running - it’s diluted), plus you changed the filter.

If the new pump with the higher psi doesn’t fix it, then I’d go back to suspecting the fuel, since that is the only change that was made. Maybe add a bunch if Seafoam or diesel treatment to the generator tank and see what happens (can’t hurt, at least)

Good luck

 

[denchen]

Sounds like lack of fuel. Has the injector pump got an electric cut off.

 

[seville009]

Also.....check your oil level just in case you have low oil shut off

 

[greenmojo]

Yes, I was worried that the fuel was bad. What I pumped out of the bottom didn稚 look great, but was runnable. No water, just heavy from years of summer blend settling to the bottom.

The new diesel was beautiful and delicious looking! I would run on it if I could.

I forgot about diesel treatments rather than pumping that all out! Thanks!

 

[greenmojo]

Yes, and it was open.

Interesting thing I forgot to mention, with the universal fuel transfer pump installed, I could hear the fuel being pulled out of the 5 gallon can and running through and right back into the tank. Not sure if that is right?!

 

[seville009]

Yes, and it was open.

Interesting thing I forgot to mention, with the universal fuel transfer pump installed, I could hear the fuel being pulled out of the 5 gallon can and running through and right back into the tank. Not sure if that is right?!

Keeping in mind that I’m not a mechanic, I would think that if fuel was flowing back into the tank that the pump was pulling it from that something was wrong with the pump - psi not strong enough (which might get corrected with your new pump) or a check valve (or whatever) is defective.

 

[thepumpguysc]

What injection system are we working with.?? The single cyl. pumps or a Stanadyne/RoosaMaster fuel inj. pump.??
IF its the roosa.. the problem sounds like a flex ring problem..??
If it is a roosa I can tell u how to start it..

 

[greenmojo]

This morning I ordered a new check valve on the return side (be here tomorrow AM), JD dealer said fuel shouldn稚 be running back into the tank at that rate.

I installed the new pump, pinched the return line to let it build pressure, and it almost started. Can稚 get it to do it again though.

Pulled the current check valve, seems okay to me though. I really hope the new check valve fixes it.

 

[greenmojo]

Single cylinder pumps I believe.

 

[greenmojo]

Well, I had made a mess under the generator... oil and fuel, and whatnot (it sits on a 110 gallon tank that acts as a belly pan).

So tonight I went out to clean it all since I cant do anything until tomorrow morning when the check valve arrives.

I got it all cleaned up, looking nice and then decided to try and pinch the return fuel line again and see if it would start. Plugged in the coolant heater for about 20 minutes, and tried cranking her over... after the 3rd crank and a little adjustment on the vice-grips, it STARTED!

It didnt sound perfect, you could tell there was a fuel pressure issue, and some light tuning on the Vice-grips smoothed it out a little, but enough to know it was a success!

I shut it down after about 2 minutes and look forward to the new check valve in the morning.

Woohoo!

 

[thepumpguysc]

Still dont know what fuel system.. but w/ the talk about the check valve I'm assuming its a RoosaMaster/Stanadyne pump..
This check valve go on top of the pump.?? if so, all u had to do is try to start it WITHOUT the check..& if it started ur on the right path.
If it starts & shuts off again w/ the new part, try taking it out & starting the machine.. its gonna make a mess unless u find a barbed fitting to screw into the top cover & run it to a bucket or back to the tank..
IF it starts & runs w/o the check.. u have larger problems..

BTW> if its the inj. pump above.. it only requires 5 psi of fuel to the inlet.

 

[greenmojo]

Each injector has its own pump, the check valve was at the rear of the motor as it comes out of the block.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Oh, OK.. gotcha.. It might just work..

 

[greenmojo]

We got it to fire up, but it has a terrible knock as it starts... it never had that before, so I am assuming it is still some sort of fuel or injector issue.

I am way over my head.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Just loosen the inj. lines 1x1 & retighten till u hear no more knock.. that'll tell u what cyl. its coming from.

 

[greenmojo]

The injectors are internal. I pulled the valve cover off today and looked for fuel leaking or air bubbles with the injector pumps. Can you still loosen the injector lines and check this way?

I am getting massive amounts of foam out of the return line, so air is getting in some how.

I had hot oily smelling vapor in the fuel tank, so my thoughts are that it is sucking air at one or more of the injector pumps.

Too complicated for my limited mechanical skills, so I called Pape and they are coming out in the morning to do injector pump leak kits on them.

Sure hope that is the problem!

 

[thepumpguysc]

Ahh, the single cyl. pumps & inj.. no, their nothing to play around with.. get someone who KNOWS what their doing..
Its SUPER EASY to bend the push rods on that engine.. if u dont follow the rules..

 

[buickanddeere]

New fuel poured into the tank stirred up all manner of ick, sludge, much, mud , rust and bugs in the fuel system . Drain, clean and flush the entire tank, pickup, pump lines, pump and filter body . Been there .
About a month later the mechanical low pressure fuel lift pump failed, maybe not a coincidence.

 

[greenmojo]

Well, different mechanic here this morning scheduled to install new o-rings on the injector pumps.

He just did not like the idea that air was being sucked into the injector pumps fuel without fuel also leaking into the oil.

He went over everything again himself and suspected that the injector nozzles might be broken and allowing combustion back into the fuel.

He opened it up, cracked the injector lines inside the head and sure enough, there was combustion coming back through a failed nozzle. Crazy!

Ordered 4 more injector nozzles and will get them installed tomorrow!

I am relieved and excited.