JD 4100 burning 1 qt of oil every 5-10 hours

[Farwell]

cp,
I buy and sell quite a few things on Ebay and feel that when I sell I try my best to give an honest description of what I sell. If it is junk I state that in the description and believe it or not folks still buy it. I also realize that some sellers make used car sales men look like saints. When I buy on Ebay I am very careful and usually do not bid on things that I do not know real well and am sure I can fix if broken. I would never bid on large equipment that I could not inspect prior to the auction ending. I have been involved in around 200 auctions in the past 5 years and have only been stung 5 times and came out ok on 4 of the 5. I agree that Ebay is a buyer beware at all times.
IMO.
Farwell

 

[coloradotrout]

Dropped it off at dealer yesterday am; discussed the situation w/ the mechanic this eve. He believes it's not worth spending the 2-3 hours of labor to find the problem. Bottom line it burns oil, and there is enough blow-by to suggest it has piston/cylinder problems. If it were a valve or valve seal issue he felt it would burn oil at startup, but stop at higher rpms after warmed up. However it burns consistently. He ran it for some time to come to this conclusion. It's burning, he can smell it. The mechanics conclusion is a new engine is the way to fix the problem. His quote was $3150 plus another $500 of labor. Oil, coolant, etc and we are looking at $3800 minimum. His point is that it would be better to spend the money on an engine than a bunch of labor to diagnose the problem and than more than likely a bunch of labor to try to fix the problem. I tend to agree.

I also talked w/ sales mgr. He looked up the values. $7500 wholesale w/ the FEL, $9500-$10500 retail with the normal hours being about 2400. Of course that's assuming a normal wear engine; which it's not. He also looked up the service history. Apr02, 120 hours (bad loader control level pin) -- Jul02, 522 hours (bad starter) -- Oct02, 571 hours (pressure line hydraulic leak) -- May03, 522 hours (broken rockshaft lever bolt) -- Sep03, 610 hours(bad water pump) -- Sep03, 655 hours (bad ft knuckle seal).

All the issues look reasonable; however the hours DO NOT. Through Oct02 a total of 571 hours (1 rental season). Then through Sep 03 another 133 hours (2nd rental season). Seems odd the 2nd season would be so low.. yes? And what is really curious is the Jul02, 522 hours -- Oct02, 571 hours -- May03, 522 hours. It mysteriously went 522-571-522. OK.. let's assume the dealer did not record the hours correctly. The tractor when I received it had 1079 hours. So 571 of those were in the 1st season (02).

Two explanations -- 1) the engine overheated and damaged the pistons/cyclinders 2) the hours on the engine are not as the counter says, but much higher. Either way, it's clear that the engine has abnormal oil consumption for what displays as 1094 hours. Both suggest 4000 hours minimum before that engine should use any oil. So I've got no more than a 25% used engine, but it's acting more like 125%.

My logic suggests previous owner should contribute 75% to a new engine. That's a big chunk of change. Brother-in-law suggested I talk to Yanmar dealer. JD draws a premium, so maybe the new engine from Yanmar would be less.

Also, there might be a charging system problem also. I put in a new Optima about a month ago. The tractor never gave it a good charge, so I charged it then. It's now dead again. I was reading some AC current off the alternator, but I'll have to check again.

 

[ducati996]

I thank you for the update especially under these conditions.

You now have some detailed info to base your next move - its going to be a difficult road on which way to go on this.
I would try and see if the seller wants to return your money and you return the machine. Not sure if thats an option (doubt it). But I would now have a concern that this machine will nickel and dime you to death over time since its use (actual hours) is closer to its end life...you at least have some service info that has discrepencies and point to things not being close to what they were represented as...

If you dont mind in keep us updated unless the seller reads these boards /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif on your next move

Duc

 

[dmroselx565]

Colorado, I'm new to the site and have been following this post and feel bad for your situation. I had to make a decision once very similar to yours whether to rebuild an engine or buy a new short/long block and replace it. I chose to replace it and a couple of things I would caution you on before making a decision. Mine wasn't a tractor, but was a Jeep Cherokee with a lot of miles and highway wear and tear. Basically, after buying the short block and paying the labor to have it installed, I thought everything was as good as new. The vehicle ran like a top... for a while. The motor held up fine, but everything else around it started to fail. Basically, it started to nickle and dime me to death and I found myself wrenching on it more then driving it. It wouldn't have been so bad as I enjoy working on cars and equipment, but it was my primary vehicle that I drove back and forth to work. Maybe it was coincidence and is not applicable to your situation, but you may want to really look that machine over well before dropping another 4K into it. You could probably get some trade in value on it, apply the 4K to a new/used machine at your local dealer. You incur less risk getting a used machine through your local dealer and is less likely to have as many problems. I thought I was doing the right thing and evntually sold the vehicle at a huge loss and only got about one year of good driving out of it.

 

[larso1]

That bad water pump at 600+ hours could be a tip-off. If it overheated like I suspect my Iseki did (Isuzu motor), it may just have weakened the ring tension, especially on the rear cylinder. That's what I found doing a leak-down test...35% rear cylinder, 12% front. I bought a few hundred dollars worth of parts including rings, rod bearings, head gasket and valve seals. It was really pretty easy and straight-forward to rebuild the top end in-situ. I checked the bores and they were very good, top to bottom, and well within the recommended tolerances. The rod bearings were still like new but I changed them anyway. I had the valves ground and the new seals installed by a local diesel shop for about $125.00. It runs absolutely great now, clean exhaust, easy starting. So, you can get away with not too much out of pocket if you do the work yourself. Just an option.

Bill in CO

 

[deere755]

I want to say I am sorry for your luck. I also believe that the hours on the machine are not right. I have a friend who really puts his 4300 thru h@#$, but does do all the service that is required like oil changes etc. I would never treat a tractor like he does but he has last time I talked with him 3700 hours on it and it is just starting to use a little oil. He has had several Deeres with the yanmar motors and none have given him any major problems. I have to think this tractor has seen little if any maintaince and or the hours are wrong. These are really good engines.

 

[coloradotrout]

Thanks for all the feedback. All I have heard is this Yanmar is good for 4K minimum, and well maintained 5K plus with 8K-10K not unrealistic. I'm waiting for my JD dealer to give me a formal writeup. I'm expecting $4000 for new engine. But I appreciate the feedback that maybe selling it, and then using the $4K for another tractor may be the right thing to do. It does come down to how many hours are *really* on the tractor. If it's 1095 as it shows today, and the engine was just abused (overheated), then the other components are 1095 hours old and a new engine might make sense. If it's 5000 hours old, then a new engine seems to be a big waste. So...

What else can I look at to possible ascertain the true hours of the overall tractor? Tough Q I know.. but what about inspection of simple stuff like 3 pt hitch? hydraulic cyclinders? hydrualic pump? HST tranny? Tire wear? Is there some other "Measurement" to get a rough idea of the hours on the tractor? Just a thought.

In my talks with the prev owner, I will at some point bring this up. At 1095 hours I really see this as just 1095/5000 or about 22% "used". I also expect one of the settlements might be that he just refund my money. If the tractor has more than the shown hours, that is probably my best option, rather than to own a money pit. That is probably where I'll ask the Q about true hours. There are discrepancies in the service records (read my prev post), that either point to some reason why few hours were logged during the 2nd year or that the hour meter was disconnected.

 

[Bates]

Larso1 is correct. Small Japaneese Diesels are quite easy to work on. Chances are, a new set of rings will set it straight.
The cylinder bores rarely wear on small diesels. If you've ever worked on engines before, this is an easy job. Naturally, the JD dealer is highly motivated to sell a $4K engine, but for a few hundred $$ in parts and a day's worth of elbow grease you could have an engine that's as tight as any well maintained 1000 hour tractor.

Maybe the PO could buy the parts?
Got any friends that are good at turning wrenches?

 

[coloradotrout]

I'm encouraged by hearing that working on it myself might be an option. I've never worked at that level on an engine, but I do have a friend who has rebuilt gas engines. I'd be up to the task of giving it a shot. But w/o tearing into it, I don't know if I'm going to find ring, piston, cylinder, head, valve, etc damage. My costs could probably run a few 100 to a few thou in parts. I believe that presents an alternative for me though. I could base my cost to PO on the dealer estimate, and then if I'm able to do it myself, I save some $s. But my time - to date with fix-up plus the engine work, would still factor into this. In the least, I'm going to need a 1-2 day vacation to the family (esp. wife) if I devote this much time to fixing a "well maintained tractor" Also, as another poster noted, if there is more than the 1095 hours on it, I may be looking at other issues as well. I hope to lay that on the line with the PO when we discuss the settlement, and sense his response.

I asked in another post, but any ideas how to measure "wear" on the tractor? Any ideas to say it has 2000, 4000 hours vs the shown 1000? What about treadwear? Just looking for ideas.

 

[Bates]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I asked in another post, but any ideas how to measure "wear" on the tractor? Any ideas to say it has 2000, 4000 hours vs the shown 1000? What about treadwear? Just looking for ideas. )</font>


No way to tell, really. A tractor with 4000 hours of mowing golf courses will show less wear than one with 1000 hours of pulling tree stumps and moving rocks. If it was a rental, you can bet that at times it was "ridden hard and put away wet".

Small diesels respond well to backyard overhauls. Seeking perfection isn't often necessary. If it has blowby, the rings are
shot. Rings are cheap. If it doesn't knock, the crank and bearings are probably OK. I'd replace the rod bearings as long as they are out of the engine anyway. Unless something is really smoked inside, you should be able to get by with very few parts. A good socket set, a torque wrench and feeler gauges should be all you need. You'll need to deglaze the cylinders, but I wouldn't go overboard with this. Some people just use #600 crocus cloth followed by hot soapy water to clean the bores spotless.