JD 420

[Reverend Blair]

I'm going to look at a John Deere 420 on Saturday. 20HP Onan, FEL (bucket and pallet forks), 3pth, PTO, 60" mowing deck, 48" tiller, wheel weights, and fluid filled bar tires on the back. $6900 CDN.

It has "about 1000" hrs on it but the hour counter is broken, of course. It looks okay in pictures...a little rust here and there, a few scratches, but not abused. He says it doesn't use any oil and the hydraulics all work. He's had it for about four years and says he's never had a problem.

I've checked with a JD mechanic and he says parts are pretty easy to get.

I have a couple of questions.

First is the price. Is that about right? Keep in mind that things tend to cost a little more here in Canada.

Are there any known issues with this model that I should look out for?

What's a small scraper blade worth for the back?

 

[beenthere]

I can't claim any expertise on the 420. I've operated them and they seem to be a smooth runner with the hydraulic tranny and seem to be a good, solid tractor. Many think it is the best for its time.

Probably 20 year old tractor? Ask the JD mechanic to run the serial number for any Deere history stored over the years.

I'd be cautious, and for my money I'd go after the 455 which is a diesel. I'm thinking the Onan is gas, and I've not heard favorable stories about Onan engines. Just don't know.

 

[glc24]

I'd be cautious, and for my money I'd go after the 455 which is a diesel. I'm thinking the Onan is gas, and I've not heard favorable stories about Onan engines. Just don't know.

There are many owners out there with good things to say about Onans. I'm one of them. They are workhorses. Tons of torque. Properly cared for, they can go 2000 hours before needing major work.
Parts prices aren't any different than other brands.
Parts through Onan are definitely cheaper than going through JD though.

Greg

 

[jcmseven]

I would have some reservations about this purchase. I have been looking myself for a low hour 318 just as a "toy" and there are not many around. The 420 had a great reputation as one of the best JD lawn and garden tractors of all time. The frame and components are good with good care for many thousand hours. I personally love Onan engines. Over the years, my dad (and I) have had several Gravely lawn and garden tractors. We still have an 8193KT (Kohler) twin engine, but prior to that we had an 8179 with an Onan. I love the sound and power of a good running Onan engine. The problem is that not every Onan is "good running". These were expensive, high end engines that generally ended up on high end mowers and tractors. Our Gravely dealer felt that the Onan was the most troublesome engine Gravely put on its tractors from his service perspective so that is worth noting. I have seen these engines last over 2000 hours, but they tend to burn oil with higher hours. I have heard all though some parts are available, they are not plentiful and will likely be quite expensive. Though I still desire them, I would second guess going with a higher hours 420 with this engine. Hope this helps.

John M

 

[grnspot110]

I bought my 1983-420 about two years ago with 54 front blade & 60" deck for $1800. I needed some work, but has been a workhorse! I've added a Ruegg 3-pt, rear hydraulics & weights.

The rear PTO would probably cost around $1000 for one, loader at least $2000, not sure on the tiller price. Overall, the $6900 may be on the high side (Am. $$$), but would depend on condition. Onans are expensive to work on, but what isn't? And personally, I wouldn't want a diesel the way I use mine! ~~ grnspot110

 

[Reverend Blair]

First, thanks for the advice. I am going to be extra-cautious now, for sure.

GLC24: I'm less afraid of the Onan engine after talking to a couple of guys around here. It turns out that I have the proper connections for getting parts at a reasonable price and can get expert help installing them because I know where the beer store is. Of course that's easy right now when it's theoretical. One of the guys is coming with me on Saturday though, so he should be able to give me a hint about the engine.

I'd love a larger machine, K7LN, but if anything I would be better off with smaller. I'm already using an LA105 for towing duties it was never meant for simply because of its size (I know people like to slam them, but I'm impressed with that little machine). If somebody were to make a powerful unit with an FEL and 3pth that would fit through a 36" gate, I'd do the dance of joy. I can generally borrow something bigger if I need it.

My big problem right now is that I have to landscape my own yard over the next few years and really need a small loader to do it with. Bigger just doesn't fit between the trees and sheds. Whatever I end up with will end up doing double duty in my landscape carpentry business (everything does...even the dog) though, which also requires a small machine.

I'd love a 455, beenthere, but they run another couple of thousand up here with a loader. I'm already stretching the budget with this. I've been debt-free for a while now, and I want to keep it that way. This one is a 1990 model, so from what I understand most of the bugs had been worked out by then. It is still 20 years old though.

One thing I'll be looking for is signs of heavy commercial use. The seller is just a large property kind of owner who used it mostly as a lawnmower, at least that's what he tells me, but it had at least one owner before him.

 

[ctlguy]

I think the price is way high myself also, it would depend on the overall condition. Engine questions aside, what about the transmission etc. Less than 2k is moer along what I would think but then again if it is in Mint condition I would think higher. List price in the early 90's was 9k on the base unit and the thing is now 20 years old

 

[Reverend Blair]

Your list price in the US might have been 9K ctlguy, but it was considerably more up here. Our dollar was worth a lot less than yours back then (I think about 80 cents), and Canadian prices have traditionally been higher anyway, for political/economic reasons I won't get into here.

Anyway, that puts original base price here at around $11K or $12K (CDN), I think, with the same kind of difference on the attachments.

Of course our dollar is pretty much at par with yours now, but that's generally not reflected in the value of used equipment. A 318 with 1500 hours and nothing but a mower on it sold about a week ago (from a dealership not far from here) for $3200. Welcome to my bitter reality.

All that being said though, I think the price is a little steep too. I don't absolutely need a tractor before spring, either, so I can pass it up or wait for the price to come down. I'll decide on that tomorrow when I see it.

On the other side of things, garden tractors with loaders are rare around here, and prices start to creep back up as gardening season nears. I also need to start moving dirt around my yard as soon as it thaws, so I really want to find one before the snow melts in April.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Okay, I bought it for $6K (CDN) and he's going to drop it off the next time his daughter comes to town to play ringette. I'll give him a cheque then.

It's in decent shape, everything works (at least so far) and he seems like a decent guy.

As my friend said, "You spend more than that on cigarettes and beer, and he's just trying to make it." That's a pretty good point. I mean, I don't actually spend that much on cigarettes and beer, but only because I'm short on time.

My friend also doubts it has 1000 hours on it. Something to do with paint in the engine bay? Apparently the high-hour ones suffer some paint fading from the heat or something. I didn't really catch that part, one of those whispered things, but he's looked at a lot more tractors than I have. I'll take his word for it, since he has nothing to gain or lose here.

So now I have to clean out the garage to make room.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Yay, it's here. Now I need some snow....

 

[beenthere]

And we need some pics...

 

[Reverend Blair]

I need to find host for that some day. I keep meaning to, but always put it off.

 

[kjung17]

You may have already looked at this, but I always check wear points if I'm unsure of the hours on a machine. Look at the mower deck lift arms. Check for slop in the 3 pt links. Wear on the pto shaft. Front end wear etc....have fun with your new toy.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Thanks, kjung. Those are some of the things my friend showed me to look at when I was buying this one. His opinion is that it has less than 1000 hours and was used mostly as a mower.

I had it out playing in the snow. The hydrostatic thing is going to take some getting used to. I found myself digging for the clutch and brakes out of reflex. It's funny how some things get so ingrained in you. I'm amazed at the short turning radius too.

Also, the oil drain definitely needs an extension. Getting the drain plug out in that tiny little space is a little more challenging than I'd like. Oh well, that was a $3.00 fix the last time I did it.

 

[grnspot110]

Also, the oil drain definitely needs an extension. Getting the drain plug out in that tiny little space is a little more challenging than I'd like. Oh well, that was a $3.00 fix the last time I did it.

Does your oil drain have the "T" type handle? If so, make a wrench from a piece of pipe with a slot in one end to go over the "T" & a T handle on the other end. Mine is probably about 8" long. ~~ grnspot110

 

[Chuck Oppermann]

I think you will like that 420. I've had 140's, 318's, 420's 455's, 495's and now have a 740. The tractor that sticks in my mind is the 420 because it was physically large, had a heavy duty rear end that seemed really beefy. It still seems the whole tractor is more beefy than the new models. The only thing about those is the paint. It is not powder coated and you have to keep an eye on the rust and keep it painted. I had my 420 for a number of years and was trying to find somerthing newer and better, but I think the 420 had most of them beat so I just got rid of the others and kept the 420. I eventually did change and am sold on the newer diesels now, but my wife still wishes we kept the 420. It was nice to drive.
For 30 years I worked in the factory that made those things and the only one that seemed tougher was the 430. But then again, the only difference there is the motor, as far as I know. The maintenace crews would get 420's to ram around with and they didn't baby them, at least I didn't, and they really heald up well. They used them to push tow trucks around but had to put on 3 sets of wheel weights and a big blick of steel in the back for weight. But the factory got rid of them after a few hundred hours so we could get some new ones. I think you'll love it.

 

[Reverend Blair]

No T-drain, grnspot, a square plug. I have no square sockets (actually, I think I saw some at Princess Auto...I should check that) so I was kind of stuck using an open-end wrench.

I've been loving the 420, Chuck. My driveway has never been this clean. Neither has the neighbour's. Or the woman's across the road. Unfortunately it got cold here and it doesn't snow when it's cold, so I've run out of excuses to go tractoring.

Oh well, it's supposed to warm up and snow next week.:thumbsup:

 

[mfreund]

Congratulations!! I think you got a fair price....especially on the accessories. They REALLY add up to buy new. I recently repurchased a 322 I owned. I used to do the same with the snowblower because it was barely warmed up after my drive was done. Have fun and get some pics when it warms up.

 

[joes_427_vette]

When one considers the 420 series was built from 1983-1991 , we know for sure yours is 22 plus model years old. The engine is Onan which is not only hard to get parts for but very expensive parts ( because no one has them and very little reproduced ) coupled with an extremely old design hydrostatic drive, again expensive repairs / parts availability. I would not go back that far in time for equipment I wanted to use everyday. I bought a 455 with blower and mower for 4k with 1400 hours which I feel is a far superior model. A bare 420 last fall at a car swap meet was listed for $800.00 ( engine not running ). Some get carried away with the green hope in retail value of used equipment but repairs are expensive in any brand. I hope it serves you well.

 

[Reverend Blair]

It will serve me fine, joes_427_vette. It's working well and running strong. If it breaks, I'll fix it.

As I explained before, things aren't that cheap up here. A much more used 455, but with only a mower deck and snowblower, is going for $9K CDN right now. That's with no FEL, a smaller deck, no wheel weights, no tiller. No mention of a 3PTH or PTO, although I would assume it has them.

I know when I look at ads from the US things look almost free.

Also as I explained before, I know a couple of guys who can get me parts for the Onan at reasonable prices if I need them. If that doesn't work out, the same guys can get me a re-power at a discount.

Now I suppose I might have been able to find a non-running 455 with no attachments and no way to tell what else besides the engine was broken, and I might have been able to get it for $1,000 or $1500 CDN. Then I'd have to fix it, find a deck, tiller and FEL, and have it all ready to go by spring. That would put it back up out of my price range though.