JD 5105 ignition problem

[aebsmithcreek]

I went out to start my 5105 yesterday and it would not start. I have 12.7 volts at the battery but tried jumping it anyway, no luck. sometimes it does nothing at all when I turn the key but most the time I can hear the solenoid click and about every 20th time it actually makes it to the starter but not with enough umph to turn it over. I jumped it at the starter and got the same thing, it tries but want quite roll over. I live 60 miles or more from the dealer and they don't run a mobile truck anymore and I don't have a way to haul it to them. I also have a mechanic in the community but he is on a interstate job right now and I don't know when he will be available. I can change parts but I am stumped as to how to go farther trouble shooting to make sure I get the right part. if it is the starter I can have it rebuilt in the closest town to me by a good rebuilder but I don't want to buy what I don't need. I am a pretty poor mechanic and need and would greatly appreciate some trouble shooting for dummies type help, in other words, check battery-good- check X- good- check Y- good check Z.

I have checked to be sure that the pto, gear shift, etc, are correct even though that should keep it from trying at all. any help will be much appreciated.

I also checked the ignition switch because it vibrated loose when I first got the tractor (used) it looked fine except the ground wire looked like it had been cut clean, I spliced it back but it made no difference.

many thanks.

creek.

 

[CobyRupert]

Is it blowing fuses?

Sounds like maybe it's not, but I think that is the same motor that's notorious for fuel pump timing advance thermistor shorting out, blowing the fuse and causing no start problems.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/john-deere-owning-operating/369366-5045d-question-problem.html#post4551351

 

[JD5210]

Have you checked the fuses? Do you hear the click from under the dash ie a relay or is the click at the injection pump ie fuel shutoff solenoid? From the negative pole on the battery there is a cable that connects to the frame, disconnect it from the frame and make sure the bolt and hole in frame is rust free.

I have attached a picture of the 5105 starting system.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

yeah I had that problem already and it is unplugged. thanks, I appreciate the help very much. I know this kind of problem is a bear if you cant get your eyes and hands on it.

creek

 

[aebsmithcreek]

thanks I printed that out to take home, I have one but that is much easier on my old eye. I checked fuses visually but have been advised to check them with a meter, since I don't see well probably good advice. it sounds as if the start relay makes intermittently but even then wont roll the engine over. I talked to a mechanic at the dealer and he thinks I have a wiring issue, they want 200 bucks for travel plus 95 bucks an hour while onsite trouble shooting or 400 bucks hauling charge plus whatever runs up in the shop, probably looking at a grand minimum regardless of what it is. I may have to do that but I aint giving up hope yet. if it would be consistent it might be a little easier. the fact that I cant force a start from the starter worries me.

thanks fellas, I be checking back regular like.

creek.

 

[JD5210]

It will not start by jumping at the starter because there will be no power to the fuel shut off relay. If your not in a big rush to get it running. Here is my suggestions check fuses, the ground at the battery (good chance it could be this), start testing working from the battery to the starter. Or go directly to the starter and see if you have power there as the problem could be in the starter. I guess you know, but just in case, most auto parts stores will test the starter for you. You may want to do a search on the net on how to test relays easy to do. For a power source use a 12V car charger.

I have included a link to JD parts to look up the part numbers and order it from greenfarmparts.com. I have not had any problems with them and you get the part in about 4 days or better. You can always call them to see if they have the part.

John Deere - Parts Catalog

 

[johns_dmax]

My 5105 was doing the same thing, sometimes cranking over sometimes not even a click. It tuned out to be the ground cable to frame connection. The frame was painted there so the only contact was through the bolt's threads. I removed the paint and reconnected the cable, all good now.

 

[MF283]

My 5105 was doing the same thing, sometimes cranking over sometimes not even a click. It tuned out to be the ground cable to frame connection. The frame was painted there so the only contact was through the bolt's threads. I removed the paint and reconnected the cable, all good now.

Yep, spray it good with that "red battery" stuff & all will be good. When you think you've got cleaned enough, sand some more til it's shiny.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

thanks Guys, I will start checking these items this afternoon after work. I cleaned the battery terminals and cables Sunday at the battery end, I will pull the ground off of the frame and clean all of that and put it back to bare metal. I was telling a guy at work about it this morning and he said his JD is having the same issue to a lesser degree, he is getting the click-click-click then the starter rolls over and the engine will crank so I will pass this info to him as well.

thanks again, I am a pretty poor trouble shooter and the folks here have been a big help.

creek.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

OK, some improvement. got the new battery in and it did start after doing the clicking thing. sounds like it is coming from the solenoid behind the dash. JD doesn't have the solenoid and one of the mechanics where I work is in the loose connection camp so before I order a solenoid I am going to trace and check connections, I was so excited it started last night I put it right to work out of fear it wont start again tonight.

thanks.

creek

 

[JD5210]

Good news making progress. There are no solenoids under the dash just relays and diodes.

The attachment was taken from the 5105 tech manual and shows what is under the dash. I believe relays U thru Z are the same relay. Should be a part number on the relay. I would first disconnect the negative battery cable at the frame and switch the fuel shut-off relay and the by-pass relay for one of the turn signal relays and see if that helps, assuming they are the same relay.

It would not hurt to wiggle a little and push in the various components under the dash.

If an air compressor is near at hand and it is dirt under there, I would blow things out.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

Thanks 5210, I will do that. I do have a compressor but that's how I found I had a problem, I just put up a small shop, went out and bought a panel, wire and breakers have everything cut loose to move ( compressor included ) went to fire up the tractor to cut the trench and no go. I am snake bit that way it seems. I am glad you said compressor though because I have tunnel vision over getting this tractor taken care of and had forgotten I need a new pressure switch for the compressor, one of the terminal screws rung out when I was unwiring it.

thanks again, it is much appreciated.

creek

 

[aebsmithcreek]

here' the latest. I ordered a start relay but after getting home and tearing the cowling off I got the start relay out and found that one of the smaller wires was turning on the stud, thought I had found it. I cleaned everything up and tightened it all down good and fully expected it to start. no go. I pulled the instrument panel up the steering column without un plugging it and found the brown wire going to the key switch nearly broke, fixed that and still no start. checked fuses with a meter all good, swapped relays around, no change. somewhere in all this I forgot and left the key on and as I was moving the instrument panel up to check under it again suddenly it got power and started a self check. I wiggled wires and pulled wires and could not duplicate it.

a neighbor who is a heavy equipment mechanic came over late yesterday afternoon and started looking into it for me and he is convinced that it is losing power through one of the safeties. he stopped because of rain and we had no way to get it under shelter but says he is going to study the schematic and come back later in the week.

I told my wife if they would have delivered it Saturday I would have bought a 30 HP right then, It really hacked me off to have a $$$$$ dollar tractor sitting there while I dug a hundred feet of trench with a 6 dollar shovel and a 40 dollar axe.

life aint all bad though, the trench is dug and I can start laying pipe and pulling wire as soon as my neck and shoulders will let me.

thanks to all.

creek

 

[JD5210]

Thanks for the update. I strongly suggest you disconnect the battery before doing anything with the electronics to avoid shorting anything out and making things worse. Disconnect the negative cable at the battery or frame.

If you think it is a bad wire or a bad safety switch ohm test the wire (disconnect both ends and put an ohm meter on the wire to see if you have continuity). If you have not used an ohm before, there is a number of youtube videos.

Hang in there, I am sure you will get it figured.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

at this point I am hoping my mechanic neighbor takes over, I am in danger of doing damage now, patience is a virtue I have never had. which is why I was on the end of a shovel digging that trench. I am in the HVAC field so I am used to using meters but I am hoping I don't have to start hop scotching yet. the previous owner appears to have been in the wiring already, I found at least on wire intentionally cut and some taped off. I didn't even know it had a seat switch until I started looking at the schematics. there were wires under it unplugged and taped when I bought it and it had a grapple on it that they took off so I am thinking it was used for lot clearing and they drug loose. I am going to let the professional handle it if he will. like ol' Clint said, a man has to know his limitations. I will be paying real close attention to him though so I can learn something.

many thanks 5210.

creek

 

[aebsmithcreek]

JD5210, thanks for hanging in here with me, it was a real moral booster and I very much appreciate it. IT IS STARTING AGAIN !!! WHOOPPPEEEE !!!

I almost had it when I patched the brown wire from the key switch. the mechanic who looked at it Sunday went back on nights last night so he sent his son who is a heavy equipment mechanic for another company over. he was able to force a start in about 10 minutes and had it fixed in about 20 or 30. he cut the brown wire back a couple of inches from each side of my splice and put in some butt splices and it started right up, no clicking or hesitation at all. I nearly kissed him. I asked him what I owed him and he said nothing that he had come out of curiosity after talking to his dad. I have to do something for both of them, that diesel humming was better than any Christmas I can remember.

next time I'll examine a rat chewed wire a little closer and not just splice the ragged ends he left, I was truly surprised that a few missing strands would make suck a big difference.

thanks to all.

creek

 

[JD5210]

Great news! Glad you got it running, I knew you would. Pat yourself on the back for staying with it until you got it fixed, to many people now a days, would have given up.

If the brown wire has the number 571 on it goes to the PTO switch, should you want to replace it.

You may already know this, but when replacing the fuel filter, if you fill up the tank and fill up the new filter before putting on most likely you will NOT need to bleed the tractor to get it to start. We both have the same engine in our tractors. Doing this I have never had to bleed mine.

Do take a look at greenfarmparts.com, I have purchased a number of things from and have been happy with everything.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

i'll see if I can find a number on it this afternoon when I get home. I saw it on the schematic but cant remember I looked at so much in the last week. I think it fed through the safeties.
I have a green parts account but so far the nearest JD dealer has been right there with them and it is convenient since I work in that town.

thanks again, I sincerely appreciate it.

creek

 

[aebsmithcreek]

it's back. after the tractor started I was elated and went on to wiring my new shop and when I went to get the tractor to cover the trench it clicked several times before starting. the next day when I got home my neighbor was waiting on me, needed me to pull his brand new 3032 ( I think ) out of his planted pines so he could get a trailer to it and again when I went to start the 5105, click click click start. last night a click or two and then nothing. if I lived closer to town I would sure be checking into some night time diesel mechanic classes.

here we go again.

creek.

 

[JD5210]

I do not think it is an engine issue, but an electrical one. Is the clicking coming from behind the dash, fuel solenoid or start solenoid? Based on your other posts, I would say the mouse had his/her way with some of your other wiring. I suggest you take the starting diagram and an ohm meter and look for bad wiring. Do not forget to disconnect the battery first. If you have not used an ohm meter before there are a number of YouTube videos to watch. It is very easy to use. I have a piece 16 gauge wire with an alligator clips on each end, for those wires that are too long to reach. Keep in mind you need to disconnect the wire at both ends, than clip on/touch it. You cannot just clip on /touch it.

You could also use a volt meter and start at the end and work your way back to the ignition switch.

I would go the ohm meter route, in case the wire is just eaten a little and you are getting some power to things.

Double check that the PTO switch is off and the gear is in neutral, those are the only 2 safety switches. I do not think you would be hearing anything if this was the problem.