JD 650 will not start

[JD Green]

I have a 1984 JD 650 the battery is good and I can not get it started. How do i tell if it is a bad safety switch. I have had this problem on & off for the last two years. It will not even turn over. It frustrating
Dave

 

[beenthere]

:welcome:
Need some more info to go on.
On & off...does that mean you have done something that fixes it in the past two years? if so, what was it?
Battery is good. How do you know that for sure? (not doubting you, but would like to know).
Which 'safety switch' are you wondering about?
When you turn the key to 'on', do you hear anything? If you do, then when you turn the key to 'start', do you hear anything?
Are the battery cables clean (cleaned and reinstalled recently) ?

 

[JD Green]

:welcome:
Need some more info to go on.
On & off...does that mean you have done something that fixes it in the past two years? if so, what was it?
Battery is good. How do you know that for sure? (not doubting you, but would like to know).
Which 'safety switch' are you wondering about?
When you turn the key to 'on', do you hear anything? If you do, then when you turn the key to 'start', do you hear anything?
Are the battery cables clean (cleaned and reinstalled recently) ?

Yes I had the battery checked at walmart. they said it was putting out 700 Amps. I cleaned the cables & battery post good. Last year I had a guy work on it and he cleaned one of the wires on the starter, (not the one leading to the battery). It started right up, except when he went to drop it off it did the same thing. He disconnected it and re connected it and it started. I checked that and it looks good. When i turn the key the only thing that happens is the lights on the dash light up and I hear a click under the dash. I tried jumping it with my van and put another battery in from my truck. Last summer once in a while I could not get it started. sometimes jumping it with my truck. I read in an earler post something about a safety switch under the dash ? Can some one discribe what it looks like? Im only guessing that is what is wrong. 3 years ago the PTO saftey switch was replaced. I do not think it would be that yet. How do I tell? Thanks for your help
Dave

 

[beenthere]

JD
There are not many switches, and here is a list of them from jdparts. You can look them up too on jdparts.com to see where they are located. Somewhat self explanatory, but if working intermittent, could be a problem for you.

 

[rundogs]

Could be your starter contacts.Take the cover off of the triangular box on top of your starter,pull the plunger and see if the contact connected to the battery cable has a round burnt out spot on it.May need to replace the contact.

 

[trusteve]

john deere 650 wont crank start without jump... I have replaced battery and battery cables but still in order to get it started I have to jump it off. When I get it started I disconnected the battery and it continued to run... So does that rule out alternator?

 

[Rock knocker]

john deere 650 wont crank start without jump... I have replaced battery and battery cables but still in order to get it started I have to jump it off. When I get it started I disconnected the battery and it continued to run... So does that rule out alternator?

No, your machine runs entirely mechanically. The electrical system is there only to run the lights, starter and timer. If it has a new battery, and that did not affect your problems, your cables could be bad.

 

[trusteve]

No, your machine runs entirely mechanically. The electrical system is there only to run the lights, starter and timer. If it has a new battery, and that did not affect your problems, your cables could be bad.

I replaced the battery ends and cables... what else could be preventing it from starting? it fires right up once jumper cables are applied...

 

[joecdeere]

sounds like a bad ground to me, check and re-clean where the ground cable attaches to the tractor itself

 

[trusteve]

sounds like a bad ground to me, check and re-clean where the ground cable attaches to the tractor itself

Tried that already even scrubbed the area... but no luck...

 

[Rock knocker]

I replaced the battery ends and cables... what else could be preventing it from starting? it fires right up once jumper cables are applied...

Well if it fires up right away you know:
1) The neutral safety is OK
2) The ignition switch is operating
3) The starter motor and solenoid is alright.

Did it start up fine with a new battery? Those Deere's ( at least our 950 ) had some bad alternators which not only did not charge, but also had a short to frame inside the alternator chassis which would drain the battery when the key was on. We went years jump starting our tractor.

But if it starts with a jump, you either have a dead battery, or you need to effectively double the amperage of your battery by jumpering one into parallel. So your issue is one of two things
1) You have no effective battery, and need to deal with your charging system
2) Your cable system is corroded internally, or at one of it's four terminal connections.

 

[trusteve]

Well if it fires up right away you know:
1) The neutral safety is OK
2) The ignition switch is operating
3) The starter motor and solenoid is alright.

Did it start up fine with a new battery? Those Deere's ( at least our 950 ) had some bad alternators which not only did not charge, but also had a short to frame inside the alternator chassis which would drain the battery when the key was on. We went years jump starting our tractor.

But if it starts with a jump, you either have a dead battery, or you need to effectively double the amperage of your battery by jumpering one into parallel. So your issue is one of two things
1) You have no effective battery, and need to deal with your charging system
2) Your cable system is corroded internally, or at one of it's four terminal connections.

Yeah after replacing the cable and cable ends I went and purchased a brand new battery... with the brand new battery installed it did something it hasn't done in several months... It turned over.. and clicked... but still not enough to start it! But once jumper cables applied starts right off and the cables dont even have to be on there good.

Do you know how to test the alternator on the John Deere 650?

 

[Rock knocker]

Your alternator won't affect starting. Dollars to doughnuts the cables or the connections at the frame or starter are bad.

 

[Rock knocker]

Do you know how to test the alternator on the John Deere 650?

Take it to NAPA

 

[megaboz]

I'm in agreement that you still have a ground issue or something is draining the battery before you start it.

Are you jump starting it from a vehicle or just another battery?

Also just like in cars, I would imagine there I'd another ground strap. You might try taking your jumper cable and attaching it to the frame and the engine.

One other issue is that maybe the starter is going and it is taking more juice than what a single battery could put out.

 

[jd110]

This is a fairly common problem on 50 series deeres. It is caused by low voltage to the starter solenoid. These tractors were not equipped with starter relays. As these tractors get older, the wiring gets a little corrosion here and there at connections on the key switch, safety switches and other connections. The starter on these seem to be more sensitive to this voltage drop than some others. If you have a voltmeter, check for voltage at starter energizing wire while it is connected and you turn the key to crank. You will probably see somewhere around 8 or 9 volts. These starters need at least 10.5 volts to this terminal to start reliably. It is easily fixed by installing a relay in the circuit to energize the solenoid. I have used john deere part # RE44536 to do this repair. It is intended for older deere farm tractors, but it is easily adaptable to 650, 750, 850, 950, and 1050 tractors. The wiring needs a little modification to fit and the instructions for mounting the relay will not apply to compact tractor. I usually mount it on the valve cover. You can also pick up a starter relay at any automotive supply store and fabricate your own wiring.

 

[trusteve]

Well to update... with a brand new battery installed it fired right up.... but this is the third battery in 2 years.

 

[trusteve]

This is a fairly common problem on 50 series deeres. It is caused by low voltage to the starter solenoid. These tractors were not equipped with starter relays. As these tractors get older, the wiring gets a little corrosion here and there at connections on the key switch, safety switches and other connections. The starter on these seem to be more sensitive to this voltage drop than some others. If you have a voltmeter, check for voltage at starter energizing wire while it is connected and you turn the key to crank. You will probably see somewhere around 8 or 9 volts. These starters need at least 10.5 volts to this terminal to start reliably. It is easily fixed by installing a relay in the circuit to energize the solenoid. I have used john deere part # RE44536 to do this repair. It is intended for older deere farm tractors, but it is easily adaptable to 650, 750, 850, 950, and 1050 tractors. The wiring needs a little modification to fit and the instructions for mounting the relay will not apply to compact tractor. I usually mount it on the valve cover. You can also pick up a starter relay at any automotive supply store and fabricate your own wiring.

This very well might be the problem... I will search for the part you listed... I hope the modifications you mentioned aren't above my pay grade.

 

[burnieman]

Recheck your cable connections. Tighten the piss out of them. I had the same problem. Redo the connections.

 

[Rock knocker]

Well to update... with a brand new battery installed it fired right up.... but this is the third battery in 2 years.

I would guess that your alternator is either not charging, or worse yet, has an internal short. Between that and the voltage regulator, is hammering the battery to death.

But we did for years was charged the battery and turn the key on to start. We then turned off the key. This saves the battery and protects it from abuse. The potentially very serious downside is you now no longer have warning lights for oil pressure and temperature. In retrospect, I would not recommend this course of action.

If the problem continues I would recommend removing the alternator and having a good shop take a look at it. They can spin it and how it is operating. Auto Zone et al can also do the same thing, but they are not usually savvy enough to use and understand a volt-ohm meter and internal shorts