JD400 - Starting issues

[Brokk]

I have a John Deere 1969 JD400. I've had it for about 4 years and I seem to spend as much time figuring out repairs and working on it, as I do using it. It's a beast through, and never fails to do what I need her to.

I've had issues starting her in the past, usually in the winter. Slow starter (typically battery issue), starter chugs along for a long time without firing up (diesel fuel issue), so I've worked through things and gotten her running. I have a block heater that seems to do a good job, and I also have a good battery charger to freshen up her charge.

I don't normally run her in the winter, but starting a couple weeks back we had a blizzard coming, then another storm, then another storm... So I figured I would take her out, make sure she's running OK and park her someplace more accessible than in the back of the property.

During these last four times I've had to start her, I would turn the key and nothing would happen (mechanical click, like something chunking into place). The first time this happened I did that 2-3 times, then she turned right over. Well it was cold out. Maybe I didn't let her block heater do it's job long enough. The second time it happened, it just wouldn't turn over. The starter wouldn't move. So I got out the battery charger and gave her a quick charge, then used the boost mode and she fired right up. The third time, I left her charging for an hour or more in advance (the batteries are only a year or two old at most). Yet the starter still wouldn't go. So I hooked up the charger in boost mode. Again, nothing happened, then after trying a few times, she turned over just fine.

Today, no go. She's been on the block heater for over 3 hours (it's about 20 outside), I put her on the charger for about an hour, plus I used the boost mode.

Just that single mechanical click, which sounds like it reverses after a few seconds (or when I let go of the key).

I'm left assuming I need a new starter. Could it be anything else?

Is anyone making starters that would be compatible with this engine? Where is a good place to start looking?

Brokk...

 

[beenthere]

My first inclination is you need a new battery.. but would remove and clean the terminals on the battery and other battery cable connections first.

But I'm betting on the battery.

And maybe not calling John a "she" will help a lot too..

 

[Brokk]

And maybe not calling John a "she" will help a lot too..

Actually, I call her Bessie...

I was thinking of pulling out the batteries and giving each a good charge. I'll let that run today and see what happens tomorrow I guess.

 

[Brokk]

If a good charge to both batteries solves my problem, could there be an alternator issue? Especially since it seems to get worse each time, I can only assume the batteries are getting run down and not being recharged. Each day I have run the tractor it has been for about 4 hour each time. I don't shut it off until I'm done and ready to call it quits for the day. I know that a modern car wouldn't run for four hours with a bad alternator, but I wasn't sure about an old time tractor like this. Maybe the electrical usage is pretty low, outside of the starter itself.

 

[Tx Jim]

Ist thing to do after testing batteries is to relocate negative battery cable from battery box to starter mounting bolt if not done already. Next install & use when starting a hyd pump de-stroking screw that will stop pump from pumping oil during attempting to start.

 

[Brokk]

Well, it was sort of the batteries, but they were more a symptom than the problem. As I guessed, it was related to the alternator. The belt was pretty loose, so I am guessing it was slipping and not providing much in the way of a charge. So the more I used the tractor, the less charge the batteries would have. I tightened up the belt to stop that from happening.

After I charged both batteries for several hours each yesterday, they both had voltage around 12.8, which is good. In fact, I forgot to hook them back together when I went to start the tractor, and although it hesitated and it took three tries, it started right up with only half the power it would normally have.

I hooked them together and ran it for a few hours. When I was done I tested the voltage (13.89), then I tested it again a couple hours later once they cooled down (20 degrees outside at the time) and it was around 13V. So both batteries are clearly taking a charge while the machine is running.

Hopefully my starting issues are all behind me now...

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Brokk]

Odd, I posted a couple hours back, but no sign of it. Let me try again.

Same issue continues. Both batteries are showing a full charge (12.5V @ 15 degrees F outside), engine is nice and warm from 3 hours with the block heater on. Yet just a mechanical click when I turn the key. I didn't use a booster at all today. It took me about 40 tries, but she eventually started up nice and smooth, once the starter finally moved.

Dead spot on the starter, or should I look at something else?

Brokk...

 

[Tx Jim]

I would suggest to check amps on the starter solenoid exciter wire when ign switch is turned to start position. You could add a starter relay to give this exciter wire more amps. RE164448 Starter Relay - RELAY, STARTING ADD 25.37 USD

 

[hugho]

Yes you need to look at the starter, Most people would tell you to buy a new starter but as you probably know these are big expensive non reduction gear starters and it is a simple matter to repair/rebuild starters. I have done 4 in the last 2 years on 2 tractors and 2 Cummins pickups. It sounds like your solenoid is the issue. Before you get too far into this job, do one thing and do it well. Take off your battery cables and clean the terminals to bare copper and wire brush the mounting areas, Make sure the positive feed cable to the starter is pristine as well as the battery end. This may fix your problem. If it doesn't, test the solenoid feed wire and make sure it is getting 12V when you turn the key. If it lights up with a test lamp when someone turns the key but doesn't crank, you may need to pull the starter off. Solenoids are easy to fix and you can usually fix them yourself by cleaning and freshening up the contacts. In many cases I found that cleaning up the contacts inside the solenoid housing and using brake parts cleaner to clean up the solenoid plunger and housing is all you need to do. It can accumulate dirt and carbon from the brushes. Take a peek at the brushes and make sure they still have some life left. There are a lot of easy tricks to do this fast and well but I wont go into details. Just do the Youtube video thing and I am sure you will find out what you need. I actually replaced the starter on my JD400 instead of rebuilding it because the armature/commutator was worn and grooved and the brushes about gone.