JD4520 and CCM toplink - Have questions

[eepete]

Ok, it's a new day with more light and fresh coffee. I was connected to the wrong end of the cylinder, which is why I couldn't blow out the old oil. I guess any stupid user mistake that doesn't cost money or break anything is OK, but I'm sorry I wasted your time on it. While swap and try again today.

Two pictures enclosed. Easy one 1st. The close up of the cylinder is the banjo bolts, yes?

Other pix shows the toplink area on the tractor. The hook is flipped down, it flips up OK. You can see that on the JD 4520, the holder bracket for the toplink holding hook is welded on, not bolted on. So the problem is that as the CCM cylinder raises up, the hoses will hit this bracket. Flipping the fancy DPOCV valve makes the hoses clear. The hoses will come out at about the middle of the cylinder housing. The limiting factor is when/if the top of the banjo bolt hits the bracket.

So if someone can advise that indeed undoing the bolt on the banjo bolt and flipping the DPOCV valve is a OK end user operation, I'll do that. I can then get the old oil out if I can be more observant than I was yesterday. Then, with the box blade on, I'll have to pull in the toplink all the way and _carefully_ raise the 3PH and see if everything clears. Hoses out the top look like the best, so I won't have to do what Kenyd is going to do. It looks to me as if rotating the DPOCV valve would have the hoses hitting the top arms of the 3PH. I will of course post a picture and summary of actions taken so that the next user can see at least one solution that worked.

I have a funny feeling that there's a iMatch in my future. Connecting stuff up with the CCM toplink adds yet another "on and off the tractor many times" line it up procedure. I have some questions on that but I'll leave that for a separate post- one problem at a time.

On my complaint list for Deere, I'd have to add the welded on bracket vs. the bolt on bracket. It would be nice to know if they are doing this to add more strength to the toplink pin holding brackets. I seem to recall reading that on the 3000 series, this bracket was bolted on.

Pete

 

[jenkinsph]

Pete,
To get the hoses right you may need to consider some swivel fittings or angle fittings that are available at most NAPA stores, hydraulic shops or dealer. You simply need the right combination of fittings to allow the hoses to route to the couplers without hitting or chafing anything.

About the float detent, typically you would push the lever all the way forward to "float".


I haven't bothered with the bracket for the top link, the only time I am not using I Match is for a phd and the heavy duty box blade in the picture. Next time I pick up steel I will modify the boxblade to I Match. I decided yesterday to go ahead and buy a new PA 30 planetary auger for the skid steer mounting Monday. At that point everything I use will be IMatch. One of the benefits of having this setup is your top cylinder and or tilt cylinder is always attached. When changing implements in the yard (not riding around) I simply lay the cylinder down and it rests against the pto shield no problem (when the IMatch is removed).
With a lot of attachments to choose from the IMatch makes swapping them easy and is a no brainer to me.

I see you have a separate tlb and no reference to a loader on the 4520, if you don't have a loader on your 4520 you might consider using the loader valve to run these circuits to the rear of the tractor. I had four quantity 48" hoses made at NAPA to accomplish this and reused the quick connectors for a cost of $120. This way the joystick is used to control the top and tilt hitch. The third outlet is used for remote implement cylinders such as the hydraulic toothbar or drawn implements with hydraulic controlled wheels.

 

[Cocre]

@Pete: Yes, that first picture is a banjo fitting. I see no reason why flipping the thing around would cause problems. If it does, just disasssemble the thing and flip the actual valve around too. So you flip the whole thing to move the valve away from the tractor and flip the valve to correct the flow direction, but I believe the second step is unnecessay.

Yes. On the 3x20 open cab series, the toplink holder bracket is bolted on with two bolts right where you add hydraulic fluild to the transmission. But the bracket also is used to support the power beyond hydraulics for use of a backhoe. So on my 3320 the support has to stay.

Which length toplink cylinder did you buy?

 

[eepete]

Ok, it's all good now.
@Cocre: This is the 18 to 26.5 long CCM toplink. I ordered 30" hoses.
Here are the pix:

1) This shows what everything looks like when the box blade is level and on the ground. I think the hoses are dressed out OK.
2) This is a odd angle, as you can tell by the trees in the background. I wanted to show were everything was. This is the 3PH as high as it will go with the toplink fully retracted. It looks like the lower hose hits the bracket for the 3rd SCV, but it doesn't.
3) This is a closeup showing how close the toplink cylinder connections gets to the non removable toplink holding bracket. I did have to put an old glove on it and use a precision adjuster (8 pound sledge) to move it up about .75 inches. This also shows why the DPOCV had to be flopped around.
Note also that the top position for the toplink can never be used. If I understand things correctly, that's only for very light attachments so if I had to use this it would be back to the manual adjust toplink. Have I mentioned how much I don't like that welded bracket?
4) If the pin where the toplink attaches to the tractor is over as far as it can be toward the lynch pin, the pin that curves up to the next mounting hole can hit the cylinder (you can see a little ding mark). So I put two .75" washers on there to keep things in place.

Will do one more post right away to show range of tilt available for the box blade.

@Steve: Sound like I need to get another decal from the dealer and swap it so that float is in the right position. Is there any way that valve could be installed backwards so that float is really pull towards you, or did the dealer just mess up the decal?
No loader on this, hard to justify when I have the B21 TLB even if it is limited to 1000#. I've thought about using the joystick for all this, it's kind of a how far down the dark side you want to go. Would need the tilt cylinder and then the hose extensions. And the iMatch is looking mighty fine about now. I'll price it all and see. I would use a normal cylinder for the tilt, not the CCM one since price of failure is less and slop from bouncing around is less of an issue. I'll probably really like the toplink and bite the bullet on it all, but one step at a time.

Pete

 

[eepete]

Here are the angles I can get on the box blade with this arrangement. Camera and tractor are very close to horizontal, box blade resting on the ground.

Pete

 

[beenthere]

eepete
Looks like you have made good progress. Do treat yourself to the iMatch, and you won't regret it.

As far as the top link holder bracket....a hacksaw will remove it easily and you won't be bothered by it anymore.

I looked at mine today, and see the final hose routing was different from my last pic posted, and the banjo is turned down and the hoses come out to the opposite side from the SCV outlets. I'll post the pic from today. I prefer to not have the long hoses curving up in the air for a neater package.

Enjoy the new addition.

 

[eepete]

That's clever how you put the valve at a 90, and then used another set of 90's to get the hose to come out away from the tractor and make a big loop with it. I see that your quick connects are a lot closer to the toplink tie in point that on the 4520 3rd SCV. It is very tidy.

I had 30" hoses made. If I had gone with 40 or so, I could have made a loop. But most of the time 3PH and toplink will be in the position of the 1st photo, and while there is a bump in the air, the full range can be accommodated. A tie wrap will help tidy it up, but I must be mindful of how the hoses move to accomidate the worste case crunch (toplink full retracted, 3PH at maximum height). Between having to flip the valve around because of the existing toplink holder bracket and the greater distance to the quick connects, I have a lot more variability in the distance hence the longer hoses and bigger loops. My dealer said he could put a cylinder on, he just didn't have the DPOCV valve. It would be interesting to see what that looks like, if anyone has gone that route.

The hacksaw is tempting, but the tractor is still too new for that for me. I wish I knew if welding the bracket on was saving a buck over bolting, or if there was a need for more strength in the assembly. To use the top mounting hole, the entire bracket would have to go. So I'll take it in small steps and use each improvement incrementally.

I've done the course grading for an outbuilding and another project, and am ready to do the finish grading and gravel fill leveling with the box blade for the building. Then I've got a bunch of driveway drainage and bank work to do.

I'm sure I'll enjoy it. My course grading had me getting out of the cab too often, and I wanted to get out more than I did. As for the iMatch, everyone keeps saying "get it" so I think that's pretty clear. Thanks for the pix and the post.

Pete

 

[kennyd]

Pete, don't mess with the Banjo's...loosen the compression fittings near the DPOCV and rotate it.

 

[eepete]

Woops, as you can see by the pix in my earlier post, the horse is out of the barn already. I can see where just rotating the DPOCV and putting 90 degree fittings would probably also have worked, and there would be less "swing" needed for the hoses because the attachment point would be closer to the tractor.

I suspect my approach is because I'm new to the world of hydraulics. I also don't have experience with the doo-dads needed to make the job go better (like 90 degree fittings, swivel fittings, etc.). I know on electrical stuff I'm all over soldering, heat shrink, tie wraps, connectors, the various different types of wire and isolation. But these flexible pipes are new to me. My B21 didn't need modifications, just spiral wrap on wires and hoses that were scraping on metal.

kennyd, should I take it all down and start over, or wait and see if someone posts what your suggesting, play with what I have, and then decide?

Pete

 

[kennyd]

kennyd, should I take it all down and start over, or wait and see if someone posts what your suggesting, play with what I have, and then decide?

Pete

I think you need to turn the valve maybe 45* to the right (looking from the rear), the bottom hose is bending pretty sharply. I just wanted to point out that you should not loosen the banjo bolts as nothing will be gained.

Taking it "all down" is unnecessary, just turn the valve a little.