Jeep Tow Vehicle

[Ken45101]

Why of course, guys, 99.99% of all accidents are CAUSED BY PEOPLE.

Sure, a perfect driver may be able to avoid situations that someone else may not. It's good to know that everyone here is a perfect driver that never makes a mistake.

The more capable of a tow vehicle one has, the better the odds of handling an emergency situation.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Why of course, guys, 99.99% of all accidents are CAUSED BY PEOPLE.

Sure, a perfect driver may be able to avoid situations that someone else may not. It's good to know that everyone here is a perfect driver that never makes a mistake.

The more capable of a tow vehicle one has, the better the odds of handling an emergency situation.

I agree with you but lets take a couple common scenarios.

First is the Jeep in question for this thread. The man buying it says the boat for example weighs 4,500# and from what I know about boats the trailer is in the 1,200# range. Lets say there is 500# for gear and fuel bringing the load to 6,200# or 83% of its max 7,400# tow rating.

Now lets take my 2008 Nissan Titan 4x4. It has a GVWR of 7,101# and weighs right at 5,840# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel and all my junk, not the 5,297 Nissan says it does. (weight confirmed at the scales yesterday). This leaves a honest 1,261# for payload, (not the max 2,016# Nissan claims), but well over the 1/2 ton rating. It has a tow rating of 9,500# and max GCWR of 15,000# but because of its actual weight obtained by me at the scales it has a honest 9,160# of tow rating. These are the same number games Toyota, Ford, GM, and Dodge play also so don't bash Nissan here. Anyway I tow a 7,200# boat every weekend with it all over 5 or 6 states. So this means I am at 76% of its max tow rating of 9,500#.

Lastly lets take a brand new 2010 Dodge Cummins 3/4 ton Crew Cab 4x4. Lets say the owner has a 14,000# 25' trailer that he uses to tote his 45HP tractor and such around with. Lets assume the trailer weighs 4,200# empty and the guys tractor is a 8,500# unit with its FEL and Bush Hog on the back. That brings his load upto 12,700#, a very common sight where I live. You could also substitute your every day run of the mill 35' 5th wheel with a couple of slide outs running up and down the highway. They are right at about the same weight. So he would be at 94% of its max tow rating of 13,450#.

So who is really the least safe? None in my opinion. All are within the manufactures ratings. If each truck and trailer are maintained and the hitch load is withing range along with a driver who is competent then there should be no problems. Yes things can happen. I could walk out the front door to get the mail and get ran over by a Pepsi truck but that just life.

Chris

 

[Ken45101]

Diamondpilot,

I would expect that the 14,000 GVW equipment trailer is a gooseneck. I know mine is, and all 5th wheel trailers are. (Yeah, I know there are some rear hitch Bobcat trailers, but putting one of those on an SUV?) Having the weight sitting on top of the rear axle instead of hanging back behind the bumper makes it a LOT more stable and controllable. It also eliminates the trailer hitch lightening up the front end, and eliminates the trailer pushing the overhanging rear sideways. Very few boat trailers are goosenecks ;-)

Seriously folks, gooseneck and 5th wheel hitches are a lot more stable than a rear end hitch.

 

[Bikewanderer]

I agree with you but lets take a couple common scenarios.

First is the Jeep in question for this thread. The man buying it says the boat for example weighs 4,500# and from what I know about boats the trailer is in the 1,200# range. Lets say there is 500# for gear and fuel bringing the load to 6,200# or 83% of its max 7,400# tow rating.

Now lets take my 2008 Nissan Titan 4x4. It has a GVWR of 7,101# and weighs right at 5,840# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel and all my junk, not the 5,297 Nissan says it does. (weight confirmed at the scales yesterday). This leaves a honest 1,261# for payload, (not the max 2,016# Nissan claims), but well over the 1/2 ton rating. It has a tow rating of 9,500# and max GCWR of 15,000# but because of its actual weight obtained by me at the scales it has a honest 9,160# of tow rating. These are the same number games Toyota, Ford, GM, and Dodge play also so don't bash Nissan here. Anyway I tow a 7,200# boat every weekend with it all over 5 or 6 states. So this means I am at 76% of its max tow rating of 9,500#.

Lastly lets take a brand new 2010 Dodge Cummins 3/4 ton Crew Cab 4x4. Lets say the owner has a 14,000# 25' trailer that he uses to tote his 45HP tractor and such around with. Lets assume the trailer weighs 4,200# empty and the guys tractor is a 8,500# unit with its FEL and Bush Hog on the back. That brings his load upto 12,700#, a very common sight where I live. You could also substitute your every day run of the mill 35' 5th wheel with a couple of slide outs running up and down the highway. They are right at about the same weight. So he would be at 94% of its max tow rating of 13,450#.

So who is really the least safe? None in my opinion. All are within the manufactures ratings. If each truck and trailer are maintained and the hitch load is withing range along with a driver who is competent then there should be no problems. Yes things can happen. I could walk out the front door to get the mail and get ran over by a Pepsi truck but that just life.

Chris

Actually - in your example the Dodge is probably overloaded by quite a bit, especially if it's a gooseneck trailer. I don't know about dodges but on the ford and chevies the 3/4 ton GVWR is not too much heavier than the empty weight, maybe 1200 lbs. With some of them a fuel tank and toolbox in the bed will make the thing overloaded before a trailer is hooked up to them.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Actually - in your example the Dodge is probably overloaded by quite a bit, especially if it's a gooseneck trailer. I don't know about dodges but on the ford and chevies the 3/4 ton GVWR is not too much heavier than the empty weight, maybe 1200 lbs. With some of them a fuel tank and toolbox in the bed will make the thing overloaded before a trailer is hooked up to them.

The Dodges are no better. Actually the Ford is the best in the 3/4 ton dept if ordered with the optional 10,000# GVWR.

If you have been a member of this site for awhile you will remember I steer people away from 3/4 ton trucks for the reason you stated. I had a Dodge 3/4 ton and still have a Ford 3/4 ton then I got smart and bought 2 1 tons SRW trucks. In the Ford its about $600 more than a 3/4 ton but you gain about 1,500# in payload.

For example my 04 F-250 diesel 4x4 with the 10,000# GVWR package weighs 7,500# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel. That leaves a honest 2,500# for payload/pin weight. If it had the lightest 8,800# GVWR it would only have 1,300# like you stated.

My 06 Ford F-350 SRW diesel 4x4 has the 11,500# GVWR package and weighs just 100# more than my F-250 at 7,600#. This leaves 3,900# for payload/pin weight. Thats 1,400# more than the 3/4 ton for only $600. Not bad when you are buying a $45,000 truck.

Chris

 

[foggy1111]

Man......a guy starts a vehicle thread about an SUV / Daily Driver and limited (although capable) towing needs.......and next thing 'ya know we are driving 1 ton trucks with gooseneck trailers......AND EVEN THEY AINT BIG ENOUGH. Good grief. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::shocked::thumbdown:

 

[KeithInSpace]

Good grief.:thumbdown:

C'mon...it isn't all like that. Towing a trailer of any weight or sort is dangerous business.

I'd put my Kubota BX on the back of my 3,500# capacity trailer and I'd have a hard time slowing it down. I now put the same tractor on my relatively huge 20' dovetail with a combined weight of closer to 4,500# and I can barely tell it's back there when accelerating or braking.

I am around lots and lots of folks with trailers when I'm camping with my travel trailer...30 nights a year on average. If I took a poll of how many folks think their tow vehicle is perfect, could be bigger, or is a real limitation, it would break down like this:
2 out of 5 would say their tow vehicle is a limitation
1 out of 5 would say their tow vehicle could be bigger but it is OK
2 out of 5 would say that their tow vehicle is perfect.

The 2 that say their vehicle is perfect are invariably driving a 1 ton diesel, either SRW or DRW. They've already "figured it out".

The 1 that says their truck is OK but could use more _________ (fill in the blank) is invariably driving a 1/2 ton SUV or PU. I fall into that category. I need a little more engine and a little more wheelbase.

The 2 that say their tow vehicle is a limitation are always driving Durangos, Jeeps, Terrains, Envoys, Ridgelines, or whatever uni-body trucklet you could name.

Buying a truck is no small deal...very expensive. You only want to do it once and you want to cover as many bases as you can with your purchase. If you're buying a daily driver, that's great. Even better if it can tow something.

I don't care what the ratings say...if you're buying a truck to TOW with, a Jeep store just isn't the first place one visits. I pull a 7,000# 29' travel trailer every other weekend with my wife and kids in the car and I can tell you there is absolutely no way on the planet earth I would EVER consider towing that same trailer with a Jeep...Commander, Cherokee, new, old, or otherwise.

You said in your original post that you like smaller vehicles but they don't have the tow ratings...there's a reason for that. Don't beat us up because we point out the simple fact that towing 7,000# with a Jeep is a VASTLY different conversation than towing 7,000# with a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck.

That said, I really hope you enjoy your truck. I'm quite certain you'll enjoy it more around town considerably more than I do my Expedition.

 

[foggy1111]

KiethInSpace......you are not listening to what I said....and you also give an apples and oranges comparison to boot. Two demerits.

The NEW Jeep GC is RATED for 7200 lbs towing, has a Hemi V8 for power, has AIR LIFT auto-height and weight adjustable suspension, is put on a NEW M class chassis designed by Daimler, has a class 1V hitch, great disc brakes, anti lock, 1130# max hitch weight, anti sway, and anti more. It is way more vehicle than your standard SUV in the towing department.

Its one issue to me would be it's short wb which is similar to other SUV's....so it's best to avoid mega-swerving when towing and drive super defensively especially on twisty roads (as with most towing and driving).

I am going to retire a GMC Acadia which has proven adequate for my towing needs UNTIL RECENTLY (FLAT LAND, SHORT HAUL SITUATIONS)....but does not have the GVW rating for the purposes stated.

Now...if I was towing across the rockies.....I may have a different opinion....but I ain't.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Just for the record I agree you do not need more vehicle. If the Jeep has the necessary tow rating for your needs than go for it. So many people on here think you need a 1 ton diesel to tow a log splitter. I have towed 10,000# many miles, probably close to 20,000, with a 4x4 F-150. Did it struggle at times, yes, but it did the job and the truck fit the rest of my life.

I came up with the example using your new Jeep and your boat, my Titan and my boat, and a Diesel pickup and a trailer to show how just because you are in a bigger vehicle there is little or no difference in % of load being towed. The manufactures come up with the numbers and they all come down to what they are comfortable with in the form of liability.


By the way, I have no idea what a Class 1V hitch is. There is no such thing. Hitches come in 5 classes. Class 1, class 2, class 3, class 4, and class 5. The only mention of a "V" on any hitch sold in North America is the V5 rating. That is simply a SAE rating. If you look at any quality hitch, ball, or draw bar it stamped V5. That simply means it meets the SAE specs, nothing more. So many assume that V5 means class 5 but that is NOT the case.

Chris

 

[foggy1111]

Just for the record I agree you do not need more vehicle. If the Jeep has the necessary tow rating for your needs than go for it. So many people on here think you need a 1 ton diesel to tow a log splitter. I have towed 10,000# many miles, probably close to 20,000, with a 4x4 F-150. Did it struggle at times, yes, but it did the job and the truck fit the rest of my life.

I came up with the example using your new Jeep and your boat, my Titan and my boat, and a Diesel pickup and a trailer to show how just because you are in a bigger vehicle there is little or no difference in % of load being towed. The manufactures come up with the numbers and they all come down to what they are comfortable with in the form of liability.


By the way, I have no idea what a Class 1V hitch is. There is no such thing. Hitches come in 5 classes. Class 1, class 2, class 3, class 4, and class 5. The only mention of a "V" on any hitch sold in North America is the V5 rating. That is simply a SAE rating. If you look at any quality hitch, ball, or draw bar it stamped V5. That simply means it meets the SAE specs, nothing more. So many assume that V5 means class 5 but that is NOT the case.

Chris

Yep....I appreciate your comments Chris. :thumbsup: And....partly I am just pulling a few chains on the tow debate here. It's just that these discussions can get outta hand so quick....and we have so many safety cadets. Sometimes we need a reality check.

I need a daily driver with some reasonable towing grunt. The Jeep described is one of the few vehicles in a class such as that....and I wanted to point that out. Quite a few other people have needs similar to mine...and I believe this vehicle will get 'er done.:thumbsup:

Oh....and I did mean a Class 4 hitch.