Jinma 284 won't start

[meporsche]

Hello,
I searched the archives but couldn't find an answer to my problem. I have only had my tractor 5 weeks, it has 20 hours on it. Yesterday when I tried to start it, the starter would only click, but loudly. I put a meter on the battery, saw it was a little low (didn't realize the Alt doesn't charge with key in straight up pos.) so I jumped it. Still clicked but suddenly engaged and started. I had to engage the starter a few times but no problems.

Today, same problem, I cannot get the starter to engage. There's a pin that is moving on the gear housing when it clicks so I *think* the solenoid is providing juice to the starter.

I am waiting right now to see if clamping a magnetic block heater on the starter will help. Our temps here have been more or less a steady 20 deg +/_ for the last two days. I know there have been posts regarding starters sticking because of cold grease but I'm thinking 975 CCA should be able to power through that. Any help appreciated.

Darwin

 

[greg_g]

Cold dirty grease is only part of it. Most likely you don't have enough voltage between the keyswitch and the starter solenoid. The solenoid needs a good 10v to kick the pinion all the way into the ring gear. Less than 9v, and it starts bouncing off the ring gear. Lower than 7 or 8v, and it just clicks. I remedied that problem on my tractors with a big Ford type relay right down at the starter. Use the keyswitch voltage to trip the relay, then the relay gives a full voltage kick to the solenoid.

//greg//

 

[meporsche]

After leaving the magnetic block heater on the starter for about 15-20 minutes it turned right over. I'm still puzzled as it would certainly deliver the same voltage TO the solenoid, warm starter or cold.

I will test the voltage at the solenoid tomorrow when everything is cold again. DO you have a part #/Mfgr for the relay?

Thank s,
DArwin

 

[biggerten]

And of course clean and tighten the following connections -

1) Both battery posts
2) Negative cable to tractor (has been known to be troublesome).
3) Positive cable to solenoid.

Also, put a charger on that battery - you've already abused it. A battery minder is a good idea.

 

[meporsche]

I did fully charge the battery overnight before I tried to start it today. The battery is new (Chinese batt had an internal short) so all the connections are spiffy, at the battery at least. I need to check out the ground to the chassis though.
I wish now I had tried to jump the contacts at the solenoid with a screwdriver, may have helped to isolate the problem.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I had the same issues you are having. Take the starter off and either tear it down yourself, clean, lube, and reinstall or take it to a shop and have it done. Should cost about $25.

I also ran my ground wire directly to the base of the starter by buying a new longer wire. It seemed to make a difference for me.

Chris

 

[meporsche]

I can't really take the starter off to take it to a shop. I'm *pretty sure* I could do it myself but I hate to open it up and get stuck. This time of year I have to use the tractor on a daily basis to feed round bales and/or plow snow. If I dismantle it and have to wait to get it back together I'm in a bind.

 

[biggerten]

I can't really take the starter off to take it to a shop. I'm *pretty sure* I could do it myself but I hate to open it up and get stuck. This time of year I have to use the tractor on a daily basis to feed round bales and/or plow snow. If I dismantle it and have to wait to get it back together I'm in a bind.

Try reading the following thread, especially starting at reply #27 -

Jinma 254 Starter rebuild

 

[mffarmall]

I had problems with my system last some. It's hard to say what could be wrong. But if your getting a click then your probably needing to check all your post. The aluminum wires can come lose after time. They are good to change out when you can to a bigger size and copper. Your negative ground might need to have the paint stripped off also. I have a support for the radiator on top of the frame and both were painted. So I scratched both up and got a good connect. Your starter might be a bad one. You should have it under warrenty. I took mine into town and had it checked at 4 places. I had 3 positive checks and one negative. So I figured that it was okay. And as for my battery I am still using my original one from 07. They are strong and bad all at the same time. But the best advice is to look at the battery system first. And listen to these guys. Usually they are right on the money.

 

[greg_g]

After leaving the magnetic block heater on the starter for about 15-20 minutes it turned right over. I'm still puzzled as it would certainly deliver the same voltage TO the solenoid, warm starter or cold.

I will test the voltage at the solenoid tomorrow when everything is cold again. DO you have a part #/Mfgr for the relay?

The magnetic heater was an interim fix for my two JM254s also. I was fighting low voltage + cold grease. Thinning the grease eliminated the physical resistance, giving the low voltage a better chance of throwing the pinion gear hard enough.

Once I added the relay, the magnetic heater was never needed again. The original Ford part number was B6AZ-11450-A. But you should be able to buy aftermarket clones at any auto parts or farm store. You can probably get the relay, wire, and fittings needed for a $20 bill

//greg//

 

[meporsche]

Greg,
I happen to have a spare relay in the garage. Can you tell me what the wiring setup is? Thanks, Darwin

 

[greg_g]

Start by disconnecting the positive battery cable at the battery, then select where you want the relay mounted. I strapped mine directly around the starter housing with two big spiral type hose clamps. But before I go any farther, does your relay have one small post? or two (typically marked "I" and "S") ?

//greg//

 

[SPIKER]

Greg has you going in the right direction.

The "S" is the Key Start HOT, (turn the key send voltage to the "S" to make the sol pull in.) the voltage then goes from the battery post and out the other side when the coil pulls the contacts in. If the coil/sol also has a terminal marked "I" that is used to send 12V out to the coil on a car/engine when the starter is engaged to start cranking the engine and is used to provide full voltage to the coil under starting conditions. it will not be needed on your tractor but should be capped off so it can not short out anything.

the FORD type SOl there are 2 types, one has a body ground, and one has a post ground. the BODY ground is the most common and are on SO many different things that you can find them every where. usually a cheapish one is less than 8 bucks. these REQUIRE that the sol has good ground between the Frame Mounting of the SOL and the Battery Ground/chassis of the tractor ground. The other type has an extra post, often in the same spot that the "I" is on other sol. this post if it is marked ground or with a ground symbol will need to be tied to the chassis or battery - for the sol to work. You can check the difference if you use the OHMS reading (resistance) on a multi-meter across the 2 small posts if you get a reading across the two prior to installing then you probably have the type that requires an extra wire to the battery ground. if you get a reading between the post marked S and the case of the relay then you have the type that requires a good bond between the SOL body and the tractor frame. you can also check the post marked I to the main battery/starter post for a reading. these two should have a reading between them of 0 ohms if it is truly an "I" ignition post.

Mark

 

[meporsche]

Greg,

Two poles (small ones).. Relay is a Cole Hersee. Thanks. Darwin

 

[meporsche]

Also, no markings on either small pole........

 

[SPIKER]

Greg,

Two poles (small ones).. Relay is a Cole Hersee. Thanks. Darwin

need to put a meter between the 2 small poles, there should be no connection between the 2 poles internally. if there is connection but average about 18~20 ohms resistance then the one plole is hot from the key and the other pole is the ground back to the battery.
if there is no connectiion check the one pole to the relay metal case. if the connection is there in that same 18~20ohms then the relay is a case ground. you will need to test both small poles to find the correct one that goes to the key start wire that is already on the tractor. (most of them it is a green or yellow wire.) that is on the starter SOL small post.




if you dont have a meter, you can use a flash light and some wire, thsi would take some detail info if you need it let me know.

mark

 

[meporsche]

Connection between the two small poles is about 17.8. No reading from either between pole and case of relay. Does it matter which one goes to the key switch and which goes to ground in this case?

Thanks,

Darwin

PS I took a wire wheel to all battery and ground connections, polished them to a shine, sprayed all w WD40 and re-assembled. No difference. Put the darn mag heater on for a few minutes and it turns over perfectly.

 

[greg_g]

Too bad when these things look the same, but get wired up differently inside. Mine's just like in the photo, case grounded right to the starter housing. But I have to 'fess up, my original instructions had the small post connections backwards. My keyswitch wire is actually attached to the "S" post, and the fuse panel (unregulated) feed wire is connected to the "I" post. All else is the same. Been working fine that way for several years.

//greg//

 

[meporsche]

Well, I cannot take the starter off right now because we are getting lots of snow but after reading lots of old posts it seems the problem is probably moisture.

I'm betting that there is water in the starter which is freezing and preventing gear engagement. As soon as I put the heater on it, ice melts and starter works. As soon as I get my axle back into my MF I will have a spare tractor and will take off the Jinma starter and tear it down. Someone else had the idea to seal up the casing with RTV Blue or Permatex. Seems like it might be a good solution.
\
Darwin

 

[greg_g]

The problem is not likely moisture. Besides, after you seal it up - it's gonna overheat next summer. Before you waste a second removing the starter, check the voltage where the keyswitch wire connects to the solenoid (hint: voltage is only present while cranking). If it's markedly less than 12v, you've found the biggest part of your problem.

//greg//