John Deere 1120 splitting problems

[Badhabit1492]

Long time reader first time posting.
Older tractor with about 9000 hours on it. Trying to change out the PTO clutch since it stops by itself and doesn't turn back on unless the tractor is turned off then restarted.
The problem I'm having is I can't get the dang thing to separate. I can get it to about 1/4 to 1/2 inch apart but it just won't budge after that. I have tried various jack heights and have rocked on this thing pretty hard. I don't know it I'm missing something here but it looks like I have taken out all of the necessary bolts and oil lines.

 

[Stimw]

My best guess would be that the clutch disc is stuck on the trans front shaft. ????
What happens hen you push on the clutch peddle?

 

[Badhabit1492]

Okay it got to work with me a bit. Before i got it to open up when I pushed down the clutch pedal it would move the throw out bearing and engage the three clutch fingers. It made no difference as I tied it off and tried to get it to move to no avail.
After some jack repositions and adding a little tension I was able to get it to separate about 10 inches. Now I see an inner shaft that is still inside the clutch pack and inside the outer clutch shaft. Once again I am in a position where it does not want to sperate any further.

I love watching all the YouTube videos of everybody separating their tractors so easily. I wish I was one of them. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

 

[Spanner]

Probably sticking in the pilot bearing in the flywheel. Minute adjustments of angle and some shock force should free it. hit against a block of wood, not on the trans casing directly. Spray some penetrant - You're going to replace the clutch disc anyway.

 

[Tx Jim]

Loosen PP bolts that hold PP to flywheel

 

[Stimw]

Loosen PP bolts that hold PP to flywheel

Just take the PP bolts out and then there should be nothing to hold it from coming apart.

 

[Badhabit1492]

Just an update of where I am today. After reading your responses I took apart the PP and was able to hit it with a a piece of wood and a hammer the inner shaft released. The bearing that sits inside the fly wheel completely destroyed and lost it's structure. The teeth on the clutch are gouged out pretty good.
I am still accepting any kind of advice I can get.

 

[Spanner]

Just an update of where I am today. After reading your responses I took apart the PP and was able to hit it with a a piece of wood and a hammer the inner shaft released. The bearing that sits inside the fly wheel completely destroyed and lost it's structure. The teeth on the clutch are gouged out pretty good.
I am still accepting any kind of advice I can get.

Well firstly - well done for getting it apart! I'm sorry you had such a difficult and stubborn beast for your first experience.

You are going to need to have the flywheel surface skimmed before fitting the new clutch so the flywheel itself will need to come off.

I'm unsure about your reference to "teeth on the clutch' being 'gouged' - Are you referring to the serrations around the centre disc with those springs? That's the friction plate and is broken apart.

Make sure you replace the thrust bearing as well as the pilot bearing you found as destroyed.

 

[Badhabit1492]

Thanks for the reply Spanner. The damaged teeth are actually on the clutch dism itself. I have uploaded a photo to the aftermath. The splines on the shaft itself seem to show no damage.

I have been spending some time looking at the parts diagrams. To the best of my knowledge I have a single stage clutch. I figure since I only found the one clutch closest to the flywheel.

I figure I need the #1 clutch and the #15 bearing parts. I drew a line through parts that don't seem to be in my machine. Of course thrust bearing as well and flywheel worked out. I do believe the inner part of the #15 bearing ended up staying on the shaft so I'll have to get that off before I bring it back together.
My main question is how does this drive the transmission and the pto? Or am I just totally wrong and course if missing something let me know.
Thanks again

 

[LouNY]

Just an update of where I am today. After reading your responses I took apart the PP and was able to hit it with a a piece of wood and a hammer the inner shaft released. The bearing that sits inside the fly wheel completely destroyed and lost it's structure. The teeth on the clutch are gouged out pretty good.
I am still accepting any kind of advice I can get.

Let's start by my saying I have no idea about your JD;
In your second picture above it looks to me like two shafts,
the outer shaft being hollow and would be the transmission input drive,
the inner shaft being the pto and hydraulic pump drive shaft?
Most tractors that I have split have had independent PTO's there was a splined hub on the flywheel
which drove the inner shaft constantly, with the pto clutch being towards the rear of the tractor.
Before splitting on some of those we would pull the PTO main drive shaft befor splitting the tractor.
Is the PTO on your JD live or independent?
Good luck

 

[Badhabit1492]

I believe it is a live PTO. Only issue is I never really ran it like one. I always tried to start the PTO then get the JD into motion.

 

[Badhabit1492]

LouNy your reply really got me to thinking about just how the PTO clutch works in this old Deere. So much that I purchased the technical manual online.
After hauling 28 round bales through the Texas rain. I finally got a chance to look at the book.
For a few days now I have been looking at the parts list online and notice a "PTO Clutch" section which seemed to be internal to the transmission. Being the novice that I am I prayed that my tractor didn't work this way.
After reading the book I have come to the conclusion that yes the JD 1120 is an Independent PTO with an internal transmission power shaft clutch. I now believe I have to split the middle section of the tractor as well to replace the 6 to 8 pairs of disks and plates inside the PTO clutch. I have uploaded some material for you guys.
Yay more fun... I'm thinking should i change thread title.

 

[Tx Jim]

After reviewing your photo's in post #7 I agree with you that your tractor has hyd ind pto.

 

[LouNY]

A manual can be a good help for sure.
Does your manual give any directions for splitting and rejoining the splits.
Most independent PTO's that I worked on didn't require a split unless the drive hub had failed.
Good luck with your repairs

 

[Badhabit1492]

I believe that I have to remove the clutch or Bell housing from the transmission. The clutch should be just behind and below the on/off lever located between the two gear shifts.

 

[Badhabit1492]

Well today I got to put in some more time into the JD 1120. The clutch housing separation from the transmission went off without a hitch. Except for the mess of course, thank you family Dollar kitty litter.

I was able to split and remove the PTO clutch disks and pressure plates all 8 of them. Of course I posted some photos and am always happy to get any input you can provide.

 

[Stimw]

Assuming you have the tractor manual, make sure you follow step by step when you put it back together!
I see so many things that need to go back together in the proper order.
No fun having to go back in.