John Deere 345 dies out and needs choke to restart

   / John Deere 345 dies out and needs choke to restart
  • Thread Starter
#11  
Did you ever resolve this issue? I am having what seems to be the same problem. At first I thought it was just the fuel pump because I did see it leaking when I could get it running. I changed the pump and mowed for several hours. I suddenly stopped and I found that the only way to start it was to push the choke lever forward and even at that I had to nurse it back to the garage. I was beginning to wonder if I got a bad pump.

I figured that this problem had to be fuel related, so I took off the fuel tank and found a cracked grommet where the pickup tube comes out of the tank and into the fuel line. I thought it was sucking air into the fuel line. I changed the grommet and all fuel lines... problem persisted. (Fuel tank was clean, filter was changed.)

Then I changed the carburetor. I had taken it apart so many times I thought maybe it was damaged. No good... problem came back.

Then out of desperation, I changed the fuel pump. It was the old style pump that was at risk of causing fires. The new style pump has a line that would route fuel safely away from the muffler in case the pump ever leaks. I'm happier with the new pump, but again this was not the problem.

I went to my local John Deere and spoke to the service manager. He told me the problem is common and that I needed to change the Time Delay Module. "All the symptoms fit", he said. I went to the parts counter and made absolutely sure this Time Delay Module was applicable to my 1998 FD590V engine. They assured me it was. Unfortunately, the dealer was mistaken. The FD590V engine does NOT have a Time Delay Module. This was pretty obvious if he had bothered to read the notes on the exploded parts view.

So now what? The entire fuel system from carb to tank has been replaced and it's still stalling out after an hour or so on hot days. I called the dealer back and their new theory is the Engine Control Module... for $300!! I did some Googling and found out this module used to be available after-market as recently as two years ago for about $80, but not anymore. Even on eBay, they cost at least $250. Some people had reported success by dismantling this module, checking for broken wires, etc. I went to remove mine and discovered a loose ground wire fastened to the top mounting bolt. At some point in the past, this fastener had snapped off so I had to drill it out and re-tap the threads, and apparently this eventually failed. I re-drilled and tapped for a larger diameter bolt and fixed the ground wire. No good... problem came back.

So back to the module itself. I used a Dremel to take the back off the case and get the circuit board out. There was some minor corrosion from water, but all wiring and components appeared intact. I realize that internal electrical issues cannot be seen, however, broken wires, corrosion, and heat damage can be. I saw nothing obvious that might explain failure. I cleaned and reassembled the module using liberal amounts of clear silicone sealant.

Given the loose ground wire, I figured the next step would be to inspect every wire and connection from the spark plugs to the battery. I replaced both spark plugs, removed both ignition coils and another mounting bolt snapped off. Luckily, I was able to get a vise-grip on the stud and back it out without damaging the hole or threads. I took a wire brush on the Dremel and cleaned all mating surfaces and electrical connections. The conductors can be removed from the electrical connectors by slipping a tiny screwdriver inside to release the holding tab, which makes cleaning much easier. At this point, I took apart every cable connector on the tractor after first taking photos of each ensuring the wires go back into the same positions.

Now things get interesting. The problem does not fully go away but it becomes MUCH LESS frequent. When the problem used to start happening, it would then die out every minute or so making mowing nearly impossible. Now it might die out twice in two hours. I'm on the right track...

I focused more attention on the two connectors on the main starting board... don't remember what it's called but it's mounted on the right side up near the battery and the key switch is connected to it. These electrical connectors were very corroded and one of the main capacitors had been changed years ago. I thoroughly cleaned this board and every one of its electrical connectors. I was able to mow the yard a few times before the problem came back... when the problem occurred... I wiggled this connector and the problem went away.

At some point I'll replace this starting board and/or clean the electrical connections again, but for now, the problem is almost completely gone.

I can't say that your issues are being caused by the same problem as mine... however, the lesson here is that these symptoms of dying out, using the choke to keep the engine running, and then running normal again... can be starving for fuel AND/OR intermittent electrical... so basically anything. Good luck.
 
   / John Deere 345 dies out and needs choke to restart #12  
I figured that this problem had to be fuel related, so I took off the fuel tank and found a cracked grommet where the pickup tube comes out of the tank and into the fuel line. I thought it was sucking air into the fuel line. I changed the grommet and all fuel lines... problem persisted. (Fuel tank was clean, filter was changed.)

Then I changed the carburetor. I had taken it apart so many times I thought maybe it was damaged. No good... problem came back.

Then out of desperation, I changed the fuel pump. It was the old style pump that was at risk of causing fires. The new style pump has a line that would route fuel safely away from the muffler in case the pump ever leaks. I'm happier with the new pump, but again this was not the problem.

I went to my local John Deere and spoke to the service manager. He told me the problem is common and that I needed to change the Time Delay Module. "All the symptoms fit", he said. I went to the parts counter and made absolutely sure this Time Delay Module was applicable to my 1998 FD590V engine. They assured me it was. Unfortunately, the dealer was mistaken. The FD590V engine does NOT have a Time Delay Module. This was pretty obvious if he had bothered to read the notes on the exploded parts view.

So now what? The entire fuel system from carb to tank has been replaced and it's still stalling out after an hour or so on hot days. I called the dealer back and their new theory is the Engine Control Module... for $300!! I did some Googling and found out this module used to be available after-market as recently as two years ago for about $80, but not anymore. Even on eBay, they cost at least $250. Some people had reported success by dismantling this module, checking for broken wires, etc. I went to remove mine and discovered a loose ground wire fastened to the top mounting bolt. At some point in the past, this fastener had snapped off so I had to drill it out and re-tap the threads, and apparently this eventually failed. I re-drilled and tapped for a larger diameter bolt and fixed the ground wire. No good... problem came back.

So back to the module itself. I used a Dremel to take the back off the case and get the circuit board out. There was some minor corrosion from water, but all wiring and components appeared intact. I realize that internal electrical issues cannot be seen, however, broken wires, corrosion, and heat damage can be. I saw nothing obvious that might explain failure. I cleaned and reassembled the module using liberal amounts of clear silicone sealant.

Given the loose ground wire, I figured the next step would be to inspect every wire and connection from the spark plugs to the battery. I replaced both spark plugs, removed both ignition coils and another mounting bolt snapped off. Luckily, I was able to get a vise-grip on the stud and back it out without damaging the hole or threads. I took a wire brush on the Dremel and cleaned all mating surfaces and electrical connections. The conductors can be removed from the electrical connectors by slipping a tiny screwdriver inside to release the holding tab, which makes cleaning much easier. At this point, I took apart every cable connector on the tractor after first taking photos of each ensuring the wires go back into the same positions.

Now things get interesting. The problem does not fully go away but it becomes MUCH LESS frequent. When the problem used to start happening, it would then die out every minute or so making mowing nearly impossible. Now it might die out twice in two hours. I'm on the right track...

I focused more attention on the two connectors on the main starting board... don't remember what it's called but it's mounted on the right side up near the battery and the key switch is connected to it. These electrical connectors were very corroded and one of the main capacitors had been changed years ago. I thoroughly cleaned this board and every one of its electrical connectors. I was able to mow the yard a few times before the problem came back... when the problem occurred... I wiggled this connector and the problem went away.

At some point I'll replace this starting board and/or clean the electrical connections again, but for now, the problem is almost completely gone.

I can't say that your issues are being caused by the same problem as mine... however, the lesson here is that these symptoms of dying out, using the choke to keep the engine running, and then running normal again... can be starving for fuel AND/OR intermittent electrical... so basically anything. Good luck.


You are much more persistent than I think I can be with this. The problem really seems to be fuel related but I have learned one thing in my 61 years on this planet--nothing is ever what it appears to be. I troubleshoot consumer electronics devices for a living so I know exactly what is involved in trying to determine the cause of an intermittent problem and how difficult it can be to resolve. This is the type of problem that a dealer could only resolve it they have seen it repeatedly since otherwise they could not afford to spend the time needed to resolve a problem that may only occur after a long period of time. Actually the last thing that I tried this weekend that seemed to help was cleaning the linkage at the carburetor but as you know since it was not tested for hours after doing that it may have just been a coincidence. You must have a 345 that is in the same serial number range as mine--one sold as a 1998 model but I bought it in September of 1997. If I ever definitely find an answer to this problem I will certainly post it. Meanwhile, I think I will take a closer look at that interface board you were checking.....I tried to post the url for what I believe you are describing but was not allowed to. Thanks for the info.
 
   / John Deere 345 dies out and needs choke to restart
  • Thread Starter
#13  
The problem really seems to be fuel related...

I've been working on engines my entire life, and for two mowing seasons insisted mine could not possibly be an electrical problem. The only way to convince myself otherwise was to clean/replace the entire fuel system, carb, pump, hoses, filter, etc. etc... leaving nothing except electrical. From what I've been reading and what the service manager told me... they inspect fuel system first because it's easier and less costly. (have you checked your fuel cap vent?) If problem persists, they go for the electronic control module or ignition coils. The symptoms are identical. The reason he suggested the Time Delay Module is that it's a very common failure point and cheap to replace. It gets hot and goes flaky... weakens the spark and dumping more fuel (via choking) keeps it running.

This is the type of problem that a dealer could only resolve it they have seen it repeatedly since otherwise they could not afford to spend the time needed to resolve a problem that may only occur after a long period of time.

Through these online boards I met another guy who lives near me with the same problem on the same FD590V engine on a different John Deere tractor. After replacing the fuel pump, he gave up and it went back/forth to the dealer (same as my dealer) about four times. They changed a few more parts and checked EVERYTHING else... they could never repeat the problem. Eventually the dealer replaced his carb at their expense... for him, that was the solution, and one of the reasons I purchased my new carb. I was not so lucky.

the last thing that I tried this weekend that seemed to help was cleaning the linkage at the carburetor but as you know since it was not tested for hours after doing that it may have just been a coincidence.

Mine ran fantastic after I changed the carb and after I changed the fuel pump... problem came back both times after a second mowing.

I think I will take a closer look at that interface board you were checking.....I tried to post the url for what I believe you are describing but was not allowed to. Thanks for the info.

I looked at the parts book. It's called the "Interlock Module" and the part number is different depending on serial number. It's the board that holds the fuses and the ignition switch is wired up to it. I think my issues involve the two large harness connectors. Since taking them apart and polishing all mating contact surfaces, I mowed about 12 hours in intense heat with only one failure. I think they could be cleaned again with more success.

Item #4 here...

Screen Shot 2016-09-13 at 1.17.21 PM.png
 
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   / John Deere 345 dies out and needs choke to restart #14  
Did you ever find conclusively that the interlock module was the cause of your problem? I have not changed it (yet) but it may be the next thing that I try. What bothers me is how it seems to be heat dependent--and not really engine heat but ambient temperature. I used the tractor this past winter with the blade to move snow out of the driveway and it took quite a while. It never stalled. I mowed a small amount of the yard --perhaps 1/2 an acre recently and had no problem--but it had not gotten warm out. Then I used it a few days ago when it was 80 degrees and within 10 minutes the problem showed up again and was the same as always...pushing the throttle towards choke was the only way to keep it running. I just can't help but think that the clues are there and it should be obvious.
 
   / John Deere 345 dies out and needs choke to restart
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Did you ever find conclusively that the interlock module was the cause of your problem? I have not changed it (yet) but it may be the next thing that I try. What bothers me is how it seems to be heat dependent--and not really engine heat but ambient temperature. I used the tractor this past winter with the blade to move snow out of the driveway and it took quite a while. It never stalled. I mowed a small amount of the yard --perhaps 1/2 an acre recently and had no problem--but it had not gotten warm out. Then I used it a few days ago when it was 80 degrees and within 10 minutes the problem showed up again and was the same as always...pushing the throttle towards choke was the only way to keep it running. I just can't help but think that the clues are there and it should be obvious.

My problem came back today with a vengeance; and it's very hot & humid.

I cleaned one of the two connectors and the problem persists... now to clean the other one again.

Another problem here is that my brand new fuel pump with only about 25 hours on it... the one I changed last year, completely failed and leaked gas out the overflow. I ended up putting my old pump back. This happened just last month, and probably today is the first time I've mowed in real heat since then, so now I'm having second thoughts and doubts about everything.

Did you solve your problem?
 
   / John Deere 345 dies out and needs choke to restart #16  
My problem came back today with a vengeance; and it's very hot & humid.

I cleaned one of the two connectors and the problem persists... now to clean the other one again.

Another problem here is that my brand new fuel pump with only about 25 hours on it... the one I changed last year, completely failed and leaked gas out the overflow. I ended up putting my old pump back. This happened just last month, and probably today is the first time I've mowed in real heat since then, so now I'm having second thoughts and doubts about everything.

Did you solve your problem?

Actually I did solve that one. It seemed as though it just had to be the carburetor because every time it would die and be unable to start I could spray ether into the throat-it would start and run at least for a few seconds. I ordered the carburetor and before I had a chance to put it in the camshaft gear broke. I called the local JD repair company in Reidsville to pick it up and they confirmed that diagnosis. I sent the new carburetor with the tractor and told them about my problem and that I felt it would take care of my stalling issue once the engine was running again. Well they fixed the camshaft issue but did not replace the carburetor because they felt it was not causing my problem and it seemed to be running fine for them. It worked about 10 minutes for me after getting the tractor back and stopped. I changed the carburetor that weekend. That did turn out to be the cause of my problem as far as stalling went. I've been using it for months now with that problem resolved.
Of course though I did get punished for this. A few days ago I was about to use it to mow and found that the clutch assembly had fallen off. The bolt holding it in place had broken and when the clutch fell off of the crankshaft the wiring for it was sheared off. Not having a tractor lift and feeling a little uneasy about drilling that out myself I am now waiting for it to be picked up for repair again. I'm beginning to wonder if I should just replace the tractor with a new one but I really don't see anything comparable out there.
 
   / John Deere 345 dies out and needs choke to restart #17  
FYI to all. I just had this issue with a JD 345 with the Kawasaki FD611v. I cleaned out the entire fuel system.

1. New fuel line from tank to filter to fuel pump
2. New rubber grommets on tank
3. Fuel filter change
4. Carb cleanout (many jets were clogged, including main jet and two small jets at the front of the carb)
5. Fuel tank removal, cleaning, and flush

All seemed to help. The 345 had been sitting for years until 18 months ago. It stopped after the tank cleanout.
 

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