John Deere 4100 wont start

[Tubecat]

Hi all, looking for some advice to troubleshoot. I have a 2000 4100 series compact 20HP tractor. I turn the key and the starter won't engage. The dash lights come on for a few seconds, sometimes it makes a burping noise and then the lights go out.

When the tractor is in neutral, sitting on the seat... in the past if this happened I would move the low/high lever back and forth and it would start. I also had a time where the seat button failed.

When you sit on the seat you can hear an electrical "click" under the dash...so I assume the seat switch is fine.
I have disconnected the switch to the transmission and put a jumper wire to see if that helps but does not make any difference.
I have put a test light to the starter and I have power from the battery but the other terminal has no power and assume it should when I turn the key?

What can I do to test/look for?
Is there a starter solenoid before the starter that might be bad? could it be the ignition switch itself?

Thanks for any advice

 

[Jerry/MT]

Hi all, looking for some advice to troubleshoot. I have a 2000 4100 series compact 20HP tractor. I turn the key and the starter won't engage. The dash lights come on for a few seconds, sometimes it makes a burping noise and then the lights go out.

When the tractor is in neutral, sitting on the seat... in the past if this happened I would move the low/high lever back and forth and it would start. I also had a time where the seat button failed.

When you sit on the seat you can hear an electrical "click" under the dash...so I assume the seat switch is fine.
I have disconnected the switch to the transmission and put a jumper wire to see if that helps but does not make any difference.
I have put a test light to the starter and I have power from the battery but the other terminal has no power and assume it should when I turn the key?

What can I do to test/look for?
Is there a starter solenoid before the starter that might be bad? could it be the ignition switch itself?

Thanks for any advice

Let me sayIi don't know the details of your specific tractor so what I say applies generally to most starter systems.

If all the safety interlocks are functioning as they should when you turn the key your solenoid should close the contacts that connect the battery to the starter. So make sure all the interlocks are working as they should. The easy way to do this is to see if you have battery voltage to the small wire going to the solenoid when the key is switched "ON". If you do then the interlocks are working properly. Next check the ground connection on the battery. This are often forgotten but if your solenoid isn't grounded, there will be no current through the solenoid to close the starter circuit. If you use a set of jumpers and put the battery positive on the small solenoid wire and touch the battery negative to a good ground, your solenoid should click in and if the starter is good and grounded properly, the engine should turn over. (BE CAREFUL TO MAKE SURE THE TRACTOR IS NOT IN GEAR. You could have a closed circuit on the tranny interlock and if the tractor is in gear it could move).
If the solenoid clicks in and the engine does not turn over the starter is either bad or the contacts in the solenoid are burned or fouled. Put the positive of the jumper on the starter power connection and ground the negative and if the starter turns the engine over the solenoid contacts are bad.

 

[joecdeere]

I have a PDF of the technical manual of your tractor, if wanted shoot me your email and it's on the way. It will show you how to troubleshoot
your cranking system

Joe

 

[Tubecat]

I have a PDF of the technical manual of your tractor, if wanted shoot me your email and it's on the way. It will show you how to troubleshoot
your cranking system

Joe

Thanks folks....Awesome. My email is tubecat@hotmail.com. I tested again the seat switch and the transmission switch with a voltmeter and they seem ok. Per above I also ran a jumper directly to the small starter solenoid wire with the key on and the starter engaged but wouldn't start. I also verified power to the ignition switch, then with key on, 12 volts coming out of 2 terminals, when key in starting position 12 volts then also come out of the other 2 terminals... I am stumped.... thanks

 

[Tubecat]

Let me sayIi don't know the details of your specific tractor so what I say applies generally to most starter systems.

If all the safety interlocks are functioning as they should when you turn the key your solenoid should close the contacts that connect the battery to the starter. So make sure all the interlocks are working as they should. The easy way to do this is to see if you have battery voltage to the small wire going to the solenoid when the key is switched "ON". If you do then the interlocks are working properly. Next check the ground connection on the battery. This are often forgotten but if your solenoid isn't grounded, there will be no current through the solenoid to close the starter circuit. If you use a set of jumpers and put the battery positive on the small solenoid wire and touch the battery negative to a good ground, your solenoid should click in and if the starter is good and grounded properly, the engine should turn over. (BE CAREFUL TO MAKE SURE THE TRACTOR IS NOT IN GEAR. You could have a closed circuit on the tranny interlock and if the tractor is in gear it could move).
If the solenoid clicks in and the engine does not turn over the starter is either bad or the contacts in the solenoid are burned or fouled. Put the positive of the jumper on the starter power connection and ground the negative and if the starter turns the engine over the solenoid contacts are bad.

Thanks.. tried a few of the above with no success.

 

[Egon]

Check all the cables and terminals on the battery.

 

[Dave M7040]

Thanks folks....Awesome. My email is tubecat@hotmail.com. I tested again the seat switch and the transmission switch with a voltmeter and they seem ok. Per above I also ran a jumper directly to the small starter solenoid wire with the key on and the starter engaged but wouldn't start. I also verified power to the ignition switch, then with key on, 12 volts coming out of 2 terminals, when key in starting position 12 volts then also come out of the other 2 terminals... I am stumped.... thanks

I now have a copy of the WSM thanks tojoecdeere.
Can you describe in more detail: the starter engaged but would not start.

Was the engine cranking over?

This test would verify the starter condition but you would have had no glow plugs.
Also whatever type of engine stop solenoid is used, there might have been no fuel.

I will keep reading the WSM and will look for more info from you.

Is the transmission a Gear drive or something else?

I have marked the starter relay location in this next image.
Could you try having a finger on the relay and then turn the key to start. If the contacts close when you turn key I think you would feel it.

Dave M7040

 

[Dave M7040]

I am lookng at the seat switch in the wiring diagram. I don't know how you are testing its three positions. Defeat, operator ON and operator OFF.

Did you know there was a defeat position? Typically used when needing to run something off the pto and you cannot stay in the seat to run say a log splitter.

The WSM is 595 pages of very good info. Your tractor is a complicated one and will be tricky to solve your problems without a methodical approach.

Please remove the ground point on the engine or frame end of the ground cable. Post a picture with the cable off.

Dave M7040

 

[Tubecat]

Thanks. The starter would only engage if I jumped it directly to the battery.... but then the starter could only turn over and the engine wouldn't start. so yes no glow plugs probably.... This is a hydrostatic transmission. This diagram helps. I will put my finger on the starter relay and see if I can feel it click.

 

[Dave M7040]

More info from WSM

The safety systems are more involved on this tractor with each sensor sending a signal to a Control Module which then decides if the starter can engage.

Dave M7040

 

[Tubecat]

Ok, I will try some of this tomorrow. I took of a pic of the ground wire off but cant post it. I'll reconnect and try the above steps. thanks for your help.

 

[Dave M7040]

How to test Key switch which is rarely a problem

Dave M7040

 

[Dave M7040]

The logic module is a critical part in the starting and running of your tractor.

As the description states, it operates as IF somethings happen (seat switch, pto switch hi low switch etc) THEN the logic module sends power to the starter relay, the fuel relay the Glow Plug relay.

I appreciate how difficult going through these procedures to find what is wrong unless you do it for a living or have unique training.

If you want to go through the steps I will do my best to help you.

Usually it is something simple and stupid that is at fault and when found you will give yourself a good kick.

The control module is almost $500 on ebay.com so you don't want to start changing it until your are very very certain it is the problem

John Deere Control Box For 4, 41, 411, and 4115 M87913 | eBay

As I look at the inputs to the control module I suggest you double check what you are doing.

For example, the hi low range selector has to be in neutral which is unusual in my experience. Have that in either Hi or Low and nothing works.

Dave M7040

 

[Rdmmo]

Looking for some advice on my 1999 John Deere 4100 HST. When key is in the on position everything is fine, lights work etc. when I turn they key further to start the engine, it may turn over a few times but the fusible link on the starter blows immediately. Battery connections and grounds to frame are all good. I've looked for bare wires everywhere and can't find anything. Checked seat safety switch, PTO switch etc all good. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Snowing and blowing here and I need to get to work. Thanks!

 

[Dave M7040]

Looking for some advice on my 1999 John Deere 4100 HST. When key is in the on position everything is fine, lights work etc. when I turn they key further to start the engine, it may turn over a few times but the fusible link on the starter blows immediately. Battery connections and grounds to frame are all good. I've looked for bare wires everywhere and can't find anything. Checked seat safety switch, PTO switch etc all good. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Snowing and blowing here and I need to get to work. Thanks!

I am not a forum expert but suggest starting a new thread would get you more help. If you do start a new thread PM me so I dont miss it.

What are you replacing the blown fusible link with?

I have a 4100 WSM from another member.

Do you have a wiring diagram in your owner's manual which you could post? I need to be certain your wiring diagram and the one in the WSM I have are the same.

To blow the fusible link means a serious current draw. You need to eliminate a number of circuits by removing relays and fuses to narrow down your search

Although it will likely not allow your tractor to start, eliminating the Glow plug circuit by disconnecting the GP relay is a good starting point. If the Fusible link does not blow as before, you will know where to start looking.

Dave M7040

 

[Tubecat]

Dave,

Thanks very much for taking the time to help me on this. I apologize for lack of response as have been out of town. I haven't had a chance to work on this in over a month but it is still sitting and won't start. With the weather here in Buffalo it won't be until March until I can continue to work on this. thanks again I really appreciate your time and will let you know how I make out.