John Deere 5105 engine problem

[BlaisePascal]

Hi,

I got a 10 year old John Deere 5105 when we bought a house in January. I've read the manual, done a few maintenance checks, and used it about 15 hours to bush hog a hilly field. This evening I had my first problem.

I had bush-hogged for an hour, and it had started raining for a few minutes when the tractor died. I was nearly on the level at the bottom of a hill. It was very low on fuel, so I put a few gallons of fresh diesel in it, using a can that I'd used before.

When I tried to start it, the engine turned over fine, but it took 6 or 7 tries before it started. Then it ran fine and revved up quickly for maybe 15 seconds before it slowly died again. It didn't sputter, but the rpms dropped and surged over 5 or 10 seconds. Over the next 10 or 15 minutes I repeated this a few times and managed to travel 50 feet before I gave up.

The owner's manual suggests the following possibilities:
* Air in fuel tank. (Bleed fuel tank.)
* Water, dirt, or air in fuel system. (Drain, flush, fill and bleed system.)
* Clogged fuel filter. (Replace filter element.)
* Dirty or faulty injectors. (Have John Deere dealer check injectors. )

Here's a clue. I opened the fuel/water drain plug a few times during this process and never had any fuel run out.

Anybody want to hazard a guess? I'm thinking maybe air in the fuel lines.

Thanks.

 

[joecdeere]

yep, any time you run one out, you have to bleed it starting at the tank and working forward

 

[BlaisePascal]

Joe,
Thanks for your reply.
I looked up "bleeding fuel system" in the manual, and all it has is this:

1. Fuel tank must be full of fuel.
2. Loosen fuel return line (A). Loosen filter base bleed screw (B). Push priming pump (C) until fuel runs out smoothly without spitting, then tighten bleed screw (B).
3. Loosen injection pump bleed screw (D). Push priming pump (C) until fuel runs out smoothly without spitting, then tighten fuel return line (A) and bleed screw (D).

How do I bleed at other locations, and what are they? I found this discussion, but I'm not sure if it completely covers what you suggest.

Thanks!

 

[Tx Jim]

It's much easier to bleed air out of fuel system the fuller the tank is. Loosen bleed screw on inj. pump outlined in blue circle.then pump hand pump(parts key 3) on top of filter housing until you see air free fuel coming out of bleeder. Now attempt to crank engine. If engine won't start then one needs to bleed inj lines at injectors. CAUTION: Be careful not to get fingers close to spraying fuel as that can inject diesel under ones skin which is very bad requiring a trip to ER.

 

[BlaisePascal]

Great information. Thanks!

It's much easier to bleed air out of fuel system the fuller the tank is. Loosen bleed screw on inj. pump outlined in blue circle.then pump hand pump(parts key 3) on top of filter housing until you see air free fuel coming out of bleeder. Now attempt to crank engine. If engine won't start then one needs to bleed inj lines at injectors. CAUTION: Be careful not to get fingers close to spraying fuel as that can inject diesel under ones skin which is very bad requiring a trip to ER.

 

[Tx Jim]

You're welcome,Jim

 

[JD5210]

The following youtube video maybe of use.

For further reference on my 5210 (in this area same as your tractor). I fill up the tank, fill up the fuel filter, before putting on and never have I had to bleed the system in order for the tractor to start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxEDJiIdzcA

 

[BlaisePascal]

The video is very helpful. Thanks.

 

[BlaisePascal]

Well, it didn't work. I did all the steps below and pumped hundreds and hundreds of times, but fuel never ran out of either the filter base bleed or the injection pump bleed. It would sputter occasionally, but no flow. When I tried to crank it, I got the same behavior as yesterday: eventually crank and run for 15 seconds before slowly dying.
I removed the fuel/water filter and it was about full of fuel.
I noticed a few weeks ago when going through the previous owner's receipts that he had replaced the primer pump. It sure seems like the primer pump isn't working, but could it be something else causing this?

Thanks.

Joe,
Thanks for your reply.
I looked up "bleeding fuel system" in the manual, and all it has is this:

1. Fuel tank must be full of fuel.
2. Loosen fuel return line (A). Loosen filter base bleed screw (B). Push priming pump (C) until fuel runs out smoothly without spitting, then tighten bleed screw (B).
3. Loosen injection pump bleed screw (D). Push priming pump (C) until fuel runs out smoothly without spitting, then tighten fuel return line (A) and bleed screw (D).

How do I bleed at other locations, and what are they? I found this discussion, but I'm not sure if it completely covers what you suggest.

Thanks!

 

[Tx Jim]

Is fuel tank venting?? Sounds as if fuel tank outlet is plugged. I suggest to blow compressed air into fuel outlet on fuel tank. On difficult to bleed tractors I blow short bursts of compressed air into fuel tank filler neck using a shop rag the block open area of neck. This compressed air will force fuel through filter to inj pump.

 

[JD5210]

I have replaced the fuel filter on my tractor a number of times and it has always been full.

I have attached a few pages from the 5105 tech manual that maybe of value. Since you have no fuel/lift pump, but only gravity to get fuel to the fuel filter having a full fuel tank is important. Hopefully to solve this there will not be a need to remove the fuel. It could be your tank is not venting, so it would not hurt to have the fuel cap open some.

 

[BlaisePascal]

Jim,
I removed the fuel tank caps, so it should have been venting okay.
I'll try the compressed air trick.

Thanks.

Is fuel tank venting?? Sounds as if fuel tank outlet is plugged. I suggest to blow compressed air into fuel outlet on fuel tank. On difficult to bleed tractors I blow short bursts of compressed air into fuel tank filler neck using a shop rag the block open area of neck. This compressed air will force fuel through filter to inj pump.

 

[BlaisePascal]

JD5210,
Thanks for the pdfs. They're very helpful.

I have replaced the fuel filter on my tractor a number of times and it has always been full.

I have attached a few pages from the 5105 tech manual that maybe of value. Since you have no fuel/lift pump, but only gravity to get fuel to the fuel filter having a full fuel tank is important. Hopefully to solve this there will not be a need to remove the fuel. It could be your tank is not venting, so it would not hurt to have the fuel cap open some.

 

[BlaisePascal]

It's running again! Whew.

I blew compressed air at the fuel tank opening. That got fuel flowing from the filter valve when I pushed the pump. The line was clear over to the fuel pump.
Then I blew air through the fuel pump a couple of times, and it finally fixed it. I hope whatever junk was in there somehow just disappears.

Thanks *very* much for all the helpful advice!

 

[Tx Jim]

Thanks for the update. I've utilized compressed air several times on tractors that want to be contrary to bleed the air out of fuel system. A gasoline powered air compressor stays on my pickup for my hay baling operation. A couple yrs ago my nephew called me to ask if I would come over to his house to see if I could get a JI Case tractor started as he had been trying to bleed fuel system for over an hour. I drove up cranked my compressor blew air into fuel tank filler neck and in less than 2 minutes the tractor was running.

 

[IH3444]

I once used a can of WD40 sprayed into the air intake to keep my old IH tractor running as it purged itself. I had gotten it into an awkward position with low fuel, and the pickup inside the tank gulped air. After filling to the top with fuel, and pumping the hand pump on side of fuel pump several hundred times to no avail. Swapping batteries for fresh charged ones for cranking I hit on the idea of spraying WD40 into intake. The engine stumbled, but ran at idle for a few minutes on WD40 and the system purged itself of air. I never ran the IH3444 low on fuel again. At half tanks all machines get filled up.