jubilee issues

[jonesnjones]

I have a 53' jubilee with an external pump. I have rebuilt the entire hydraulic system from pump to piston/o-rings with new universal oil. the 3-point still wants to lift with the positioner arm all the way down. I have about 1800psi going to the piston. what could be my issue with it trying to lift all the time? I have no trouble lifting anything. if there is an entire covor plate for sale let me know. thanks for your time.

 

[Jbrink64]

I would be looking for a stuck valve. Either the control valve, unload valve or the back pressure valve. If they are all free, it's a linkage issue. There are a couple of adjustments in the lift cover that require a good manual, and the Ford special tools. If you're familiar with these lift covers, you can get away without the tools.

 

[Soundguy]

even if not familiar witht he cover or manual.. you don't need the nuday tools.. just have to be able to read a ruler to do the adjustments.

to the op.. will the 3pt still lift with a lil weight on it. IE.. set a concret block on the 3pt 11 hole drawbar.. is that enough to keep it from coming up?

and by external pump I take it to mean the REGULAR OEM right side mounted engine pump either the square vane design, or the repalcement cylindrical piston pump. if the piston pump, is it the oem 2.85 gpm one.. or a later repalced 4gpm one from a hundred series. if so.. that may be part of the issue. the exhaust capability of that system was designed for about 3gpm max flow... with more flow there is more backpressure.. thus the 3pt can ghost rise if there is no weight on it.. if a lil weight helps, and you are using a correct thin UTF style oil.. i'd check to make sure the oil was clean and not milky, and check the positioning of the BP valve too.

Might run a gallon of diesel into the sump and some atf fluid and cycle and run around for 10 minutes, then drain and refill if the sump had any sings of dirt or emulsified water in it. if water.. add some isopropyl alcohol to that mix I told you about.. etc. if it's clean on the other hand.. don't drain it just to drain it., though i might pull it to make sure the unlaoding valve moved freely and/ or clean it etc.

soundguy

 

[jonesnjones]

soundguy:
I have the oem crank driven off a 800. the oil is brand new since I just put new piston o rings unloading valve in it. at an idle I have to put about 350 lbs. on it. for it to stay down
I put universal hydraulic oil in it. this setup has been workin for. last 3 yrs. great
all at once it decided to do this. that's when I replaced what I have mentioned. thank you for your time. by the way if I were to sell it about what should I ask in working order and in moderate to great condition.

 

[Soundguy]

crank driven?

crank driven pump are onthe front of the tractor and are SUPER high volume. if you have that plumbed into your hyd system no wonder you can't keep the arms down... it's too much flow for the valve to dump.

now.. if we are instead talking about the side engine ( CAM ) driven pump.. then therein is still part of the problem. a pump from an 00/01 is 4gpm.. oem was 2.85 gpm. that's extra oil for that valve to dump when bypassing to sump.

I'd also still think the unloading valve is hanging or binding rather.. that or back pressure valve restricting oil.. only needs a few psi to keep unloader alive..

please clarify what pump you have.. cam or crank driven..

soundguy

 

[jonesnjones]

it is crank driven. has been working this way for about 3 yrs. just all of a sudden started doing this.

 

[Soundguy]

so you have a crank driven pump plumbed in in place of the oem engine side pump?

i'd like to see a pic.

what oil volume are you pushing. the unload valve isn't designed to dump more than about 3gpm.

i won't / can't comment any further untill there is full discolsure on the particulars of this non stock hyd system, and the bugs it has..

soundguy

 

[Jbrink64]

it is crank driven. has been working this way for about 3 yrs. just all of a sudden started doing this.

Sounds to me like a misunderstanding, re: pump placement. It was working in the past, something is now gone wrong, now it's misbehaving.

 

[Soundguy]

can't comment further without know full details of the hyd system as he doesn't have it setup as oem... could be anything right now.... gum on his shoe on a tuesday.. that kind of thing. guessing at this point is useless with a non oem system without knowing exactly how it is plumbed.. type of pump.. any diverters, restrictors, priority valves, PB.. etc. inthe system and how he has it plumbed to the oem system.. ie, as a repalcement or in tandem.. etc.. etc..

pics nad description will be needed.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Sounds to me like a misunderstanding, re: pump placement. It was working in the past, something is now gone wrong, now it's misbehaving.

no misunderstanding on my part.. he has dramatically changed the oem hyd setup on that tractor now needs help with it.. before he can get htat help.. he needs to tell us exactly what he has and how it is plumbed...

soundguy

 

[jonesnjones]

sorry about the confusion gents; my issue was the unloading valve wasn't free. I honed it out and made some adjustments with the linkage. I'm not sure exactly what the crank driven pump is that's on it. all I know is I pulled it off an 800 ford. it has worked since I put it on and is finally working now. I still have to have about 10 lbs. on the drawbar for to keep it from creeping up but I can live with that. in case u are still wondering I have it plumbed directly from the pump to the port. nothin in between. may not be oem but it's working good now. thanks for your time. I will try to get some pics of it if you would like.

 

[jonesnjones]

sorry about the confusion gents; my issue was the unloading valve wasn't free. I honed it out and made some adjustments with the linkage. I'm not sure exactly what the crank driven pump is that's on it. all I know is I pulled it off an 800 ford. it has worked since I put it on and is finally working now. I still have to have about 10 lbs. on the drawbar for to keep it from creeping up but I can live with that. in case u are still wondering I have it plumbed directly from the pump to the port. nothin in between. may not be oem but it's working good now. thanks for your time. I will try to get some pics of it if you would like.

 

[Soundguy]

from the pump to the port? what port? there are dozens of ports on the tractor??

a picture would help.. or a detailed description of where the pump is sucking oil from and pushing it to..

reason I mention this is I don't hear of a relief valve in the crank driven system.. the relief for the side mount engine pump is inthe base of the center casting.. and there's no access to that unless the pressure port has been t'd at the manifold somehow.. or the side pump completely eliminated and an adapter plate made to feed/return the oil from the front pump.

without a relief.. it's a problem waiting to happen as soon as that unloader REALLY sticks one day.. and the engine is still turning, thus crank pump making oil.. and nowhere for it to go.. = split hoses, cracked castings.. etc.. etc..

soundguy

 

[whodat526]

from the pump to the port? what port? there are dozens of ports on the tractor??

a picture would help.. or a detailed description of where the pump is sucking oil from and pushing it to..

soundguy

it is sucking from the tractor and pushing back into the tractor...

no but really i wont to see how that thing is hooked up i might wont to try it in the future

 

[Soundguy]

it is sucking from the tractor and pushing back into the tractor...

no but really i wont to see how that thing is hooked up i might wont to try it in the future

my only real guess is that he is using the hyd drain port as the suction for the pump, and then plumbing the output into the side of the center housing just ABOVE and beyond the relief valve that is inthe base of the center housing.. where it then feeds the top cover along with the oil from the oem pump. in this fashion the unloader is having to deal with alot of extra oil capacity.. since it was designed for 2.85gpm. plus there is no relief in the aux pump circuit, as the relief is inline with the piping thru the trans and into the center section directly. that scares me. no relief is BAAAAAD!

soundguy

 

[whodat526]

my only real guess is that he is using the hyd drain port as the suction for the pump, and then plumbing the output into the side of the center housing just ABOVE and beyond the relief valve that is inthe base of the center housing.. where it then feeds the top cover along with the oil from the oem pump. in this fashion the unloader is having to deal with alot of extra oil capacity.. since it was designed for 2.85gpm. plus there is no relief in the aux pump circuit, as the relief is inline with the piping thru the trans and into the center section directly. that scares me. no relief is BAAAAAD!

soundguy

i agree with u 100 percent i would think the front pump would do some serious damage over time from the high valve it puts out. i was thinking they might have cut the tubes that connected the oem pump the the trans and spliced it there some how. but i would like to see a picture. i know i have only seen one done like this and it was an 8n and worked about 5 mins tops and stuff started coming apart inside the lift top. and would this be dangerous i wouldn't wont to sit on top of all this contrapasin if a plug comes out some where it will hurt

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. I have seen that.. the oem pump gone, then a dummy plate bolted to the flange where the oem pump would connect.. this plate then has a suction and pressure fitting of choice welded or brazed, etc.. to it.. then you just hookup however.. IE.. JIC.. pipe swivel.. etc.. etc.

if he is doing it like that at least there is a relief in the system.. however same problem exists.. relief is designed for a 2.85gpm system as well.. at full relief, if the pump is way high volume you can still have issues.

hopefully it's a lower volume pump.. say 6-8 gpm, then there is a restrictor orifice inline, and it us using a dummy plate to feed the oem pump connection, in leiu of the oem pump. that's the only safe way I'm seeing it, unless it was as mentioned before AND has a relief inthe system he is not telling us about.

that's why i want to see a pic.

sure hope he doesn't grenade that jube. their hyds are different than the 55+ 00 series and parts are getting harder to find every day.. plus.. all that is just a few inches away from where some important parts are setting.. like legs, but.. 'the boys'.. and none of them are replaceable should a high pressure hyd leak forcefully occure due to an underengineered hyd kludge that 'works'.. would hate to see the guy get hurt.. oil injected under the skin is bad news, and high pressure oil at a few inches can cut like a blade and lay flesh open easilly.

soundguy

i agree with u 100 percent i would think the front pump would do some serious damage over time from the high valve it puts out. i was thinking they might have cut the tubes that connected the oem pump the the trans and spliced it there some how. but i would like to see a picture. i know i have only seen one done like this and it was an 8n and worked about 5 mins tops and stuff started coming apart inside the lift top. and would this be dangerous i wouldn't wont to sit on top of all this contrapasin if a plug comes out some where it will hurt

 

[whodat526]

sure hope he doesn't grenade that jube. their hyds are different than the 55+ 00 series and parts are getting harder to find every day.. plus.. all that is just a few inches away from where some important parts are setting.. like legs, but.. 'the boys'.. and none of them are replaceable should a high pressure hyd leak forcefully occure due to an underengineered hyd kludge that 'works'.. would hate to see the guy get hurt.. oil injected under the skin is bad news, and high pressure oil at a few inches can cut like a blade and lay flesh open easilly.

soundguy

i seen a man have some oil on his hand and blowed it of with a air house and it forced some under the skin on the tip of his finger where he had a little cut they ended up having to cut of his finger because it got a real bad infection

 

[Soundguy]

i seen a man have some oil on his hand and blowed it of with a air house and it forced some under the skin on the tip of his finger where he had a little cut they ended up having to cut of his finger because it got a real bad infection

yep.. that's why i like to check for leaks on pressurize dlines with a piece of cardboard... way safer!

soundguy