jumping through hoops

[Chuck52]

Thanks for the replies to my venting. It really shouldn't be too expensive to meet this requirement, though the contractor seemed to think the inspector would require separate ground fault circuits be pulled directly from the main box. I plan to call the inspector and, as was suggested, ask nicely if I can do it as inexpensively as possible. Both crawl spaces are accessed from the basement, so I can easily get circuits in there.....I just don't want to have to pull new circuits all the way from the box. If he will let me install a GFI outlet on an existing circuit, that would be fine with me. I wouldn't mind having an outlet in each space just in case. One is under a bathroom, as I said, and it is not unlikely I will have something or other under there need attention. The other is under a family room addition, and I will be running cable in there whenever I get around to getting a satellite system. We had the electrician install a box for it, but I wanted to install the dish on my nearby shed roof and run the underground cable later. A plug for my work light would be nice. So anyway, I'll make nice nice and ask his advice. He's the head honcho, so I don't think I have much chance for a full reversal anyway. Does make me wish I could get stats on how many crawl spaces in these parts have sump pumps, especially such nice dry crawl spaces as mine. As for inspectors being useful, I have had good experience with that myself. When I built my polebarn, I had one inspector compliment my construction and suggest some simple additional wind bracing that I hadn't thought about. He said it was more than required, but as I seemed to be of the over-engineering bent, I might like to add it in to stiffen things up a bit.

Chuck

 

[Alan L.]

Other than the city getting its permit fee, what the heck business is it of theirs how you do your own house. If the basement overflows thats the owners problem - none of their business. I can understand enforcing codes that affect the asthetics or functionality of the neighborhood, but legislating against stupidity is socialism.

If I have an electrical system that "doesn't meet code", then that should be my problem. When I sell it, if the property is inspected and determined not to meet code, then the buyer can walk away.

In some areas of the country private individuals are required to make their personal homes accessible to persons in wheel chairs. Why is this? If its MY home and I don't want wide halls and light switches that are too low, then I shouldn't have to build it that way.

One of these days we will all be required to paint the inside of our house a color that all potential future occupants can live with.

 

[MikePA]

<font color=blue>If the basement overflows thats the owners problem - none of their business.</font color=blue>

In some areas, the fire department gets to do this (pump out the basement), hence the govt involvement. I'm not agreeing with this, just pointing out why some areas have regulations like this.

 

[Chuck52]

I don't, in general, disapprove of codes for buildings and such, at least for any building which will be occupied. I didn't really think I should have to build a shed for storage of my tractor and implements to specific codes, but even there, if you assume you might have an insurance claim or something, it does make sense to require at least minimal structural integrity. For houses, such codes make good sense, because many of the things they should regulate might be very difficult to find and correct later. The codes can, ideally, serve to protect the public from unscrupulous builders, for instance. I was reading Muhammad's post about a strange roof problem, and it seems as if that might be an instance where an alert inspector might have prevented future problems. My objections to my present problem with the codes are two-fold: 1) If the code really only requires a sump pump in the event the crawl space is below or very near the water table, I think it should not apply in this instance. 2) If it does apply for whatever reason, why wasn't it brought up in eaerlier inspections, when the electrician was still around and could have installed the needed circuits at minimal added expense? The crawl spaces were specifically inspected at an earlier time, and it should have been obvious that no sump pumps were in the works. Some consistency would be nice. The fellow who inspected the crawl spaces mainly was surprised at the over-design I had asked for. It just feels (yes I know, watch those "feelings") as if the inspector needed to find something to object to. Now I have to get past that feeling so I can be friendly and humble and ask for his assistance to get this fixed. I can do friendly and humble, but I swear it takes years off my life expectancy, and as I get older I have to work harder to avoid going to the shove-it-where-the-sun-don't-shine mode.

Chuck

 

[JonLeonard]

I have been told by several contractors that they purposely leave something thats not done right in every job they do. Something obvious. Appearently, some inspectors will not leave until they find something that needs fixed, so, to avoid something more expensive, they just leave something simple undone.

Jon

 

[TimSullivan]

I just finished construction of our new home and the code enforcement officer has a reputation of being very tough. I had nothing but trouble with the plumber and he would not make the changes that I felt did not meet code. The impasse was broken when the inspector listed all the problems I wanted fixed and more that I had missed. The next day the plumber was back fixing everything.

Everything went smoothly on the project and I believe one of the reasons was the contractors knew that they could not get away with anything. The plumber was a sub who had never had this inspector before. Our code enforcement officer is the home owners friend and the check on the contractors.

I have done several projects with this inspector and he is very knowledgeable and fair. He wants a good job done but knows that the code does not fit the situation all the time. He will get together with the owner and the contractor and do what is best.

If I hear a contractor bad mouthing him, I make a mental note that this is not some one that I want to work for me.

 

[chim]

I've been in construction since 1968, and can say that "bad" inspectors I encountered could be counted on one hand. A couple of them will be remembered as perfect examples of **** orfices. We had one on a government job years ago that really stood out. He wanted us to replace aluminum pipe because it was rusting(?). He didn't seem to understand that the steel banding that kept it bundles between the factory and the jobsite were responsible for a little "bleeding".

One municipality just North of Lancaster seems to have more than its fair share. I spoke with a contractor who refuses to take work in that township. A bud told me he has a relative living in the township, and one Saturday, another friend stopped by for a visit. The latter was driving his company truck - a van that was marked with the name of a chimney sweep company. This township requires permits for sweeping chimneys, so a passing township inspector stopped in to check if the chimney sweep was there on business.

The vast majority of inspectors are cooperative, even helpful - unless they think you're trying to cheat on code issues..........chim

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color=blue>"The vast majority of inspectors are cooperative, even helpful - unless they think you're trying to cheat on code issues."</font color=blue>

Well said! I couldn't agree more. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

If your house starts on fire because of substandard electrical wiring, are you saying this is not the cities, or your neighbors, or the firefighters, concern? It's "legislating against stupidity?"

 

[Inspector507]

I knew it wouldn't be long before I had to chime in here and leave my 2 cents worth.

<font color=blue>Not to mention that the guy you had doesn't seem understand that the rules are a guideline, and logic shoule prevail.</font color=blue>
Codes are usually the minimum guidelines for safety. Yes, logic has a part in it but, if you are a contractor and do this for a living but can't meet the minimums for safety, maybe you need to think about what kind of hazards you might be putting the residents/occupants of the house/building in.

<font color=blue>The inspector can create a lot more trouble for you than you can for him</font color=blue>
My inspectors better not create more trouble later down the line. They have to deal with me if they try it. Although I do have one in my employ that I wish there was a way to get him out of the system. Union protection though prevents firing him. Every large municipality will have at least ONE that just refuses to do things the way we'd like them done.

<font color=blue>One thing that most people forget, is that if there's a dispute with an inspector, they can ask for another inspector to review the situation and make a recommendation</font color=blue>

I have 2 Field Supervisors that monitor all of my inspectors work. They are there to deal with any controversies. That's why I created those positions. And I make the final decision if there's a problem.

<font color=blue>Other than the city getting its permit fee, what the heck business is it of theirs how you do your own house</font color=blue>

Because I want to sleep well at nights knowing what I inspected was safe. Did it ALWAYS meet code?? Nope, but it was safe. Besides most codes have been adopted as law in your area. So not only did you not meet code, you violated state/local laws.

<font color=blue>If I have an electrical system that "doesn't meet code", then that should be my problem</font color=blue>
Because electric can kill, that's why I want it done safely.
Do all the jobs I inspect meet code to "the letter of the law"? No, but I know that no one will get hurt either.

<font color=blue>The vast majority of inspectors are cooperative, even helpful - unless they think you're trying to cheat on code issues</font color=blue>

And we probably inspect a little closer on those contractors just to see what they might "be hiding", and they do a lot.