Just how self-leveling should a self-leveling loader be ?

[bcp]

I sure wouldn't want a bucket that went level as soon as it was lifted and stayed there. All the material would be falling out of the bucket, making it useless as a loader.

With a parallelogram linkage, it would'nt really be self-"leveling," but maintain whatever angle you want as they are raised. It would still have the curl cylinders as part of the linkage. If you scoop, curl bucket to 45 degrees, then lift, the bucket stays at 45 degrees during the lift to full height. It doesn't tilt back and dump the load on your hood like a non-self-leveling could.

Most "self leveling" loaders have a modified linkage like this one, so the bucket does not tilt as much as it is raised, but does tilt some.

Some diagrams and photo in another thread:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/163882-self-leveling-loaders-2.html#post1883321


It can be done hydraulically instead of mechanically, too.

From, near the page bottom:
http://www.loaders.com/aspx/WhyWestendorf/WhyWestendorf.aspx

View attachment 280322

Enhance your loader's productivity with this new self-leveling valve. This economical solution is available on most Westendorf loaders. This feature automatically keeps the bucket level as it is being raised. This valve eliminates the operator leveling function, which reduces operator fatigue and leads to greater productivity. Level Up Advantage turns every operator into a pro and helps prevent spillage.

In operation, the valve directs a portion of the exhaust oil from the lift cylinder to the bucket cylinder for automatic leveling. The valve works well with a wide range of equipment attachment applications including buckets, bale spears, forklifts, and booms.

Bruce

 

[LD1]

As it is right now if you had your bucket level flat on the ground. Drove into a pile of material. Rolled bucket back and lifted to full height you would have a full bucket and no spill back on you nor would you have to feather to roll back to prevent spill back.
That is what the self leveling is supposed to do and it appears yours will do it.

You can also push into a pile with it level and lift without rolling back and while you won't get a full bucket you would not spill any out front or back, again, what it is supposed to do.

Am I seeing this wrong?

If the bucket maintained the angle it was at when on the ground throught out the whole raise (IE: true self leveling), would its operation be any different than you describe???

Ok so from what I'm getting the beast looks normal to you all...
I was a bit concerned it was mis-behaving because I do want to put pallet forks to move stuff around.
I suppose I'll go with the "if it aint broke don't fix it...."

I guess if by "normal" you mean a design that dont work the way you want, then yea I'd call it normal. Personally, as easy as yours would be to change, I'd make it right.

On self leveling loaders, the bucket rolls down slightly as the loader is being raised to help prevent the load from spilling over the back of the bucket at full height.
The loader in the picture looks like it is working as it should to me.
I sure wouldn't want a bucket that went level as soon as it was lifted and stayed there. All the material would be falling out of the bucket, making it useless as a loader.

BCP explained this pretty well. A "self-leveling" loader dont mean that in goes to level when moved. Rather whatever angle it is at, it stays at. So if the cutting edge is pointed 25 degrees downhill at ground level, it would still be 25 degrees down at full raise.

And when you say the "bucket rolls down slightly" is actually not exactally true. In his case, the bucket actually rolls back slightly when raised. Just not quite as much as a NON-SL loader. Ideally IMO, would be that the bucket dont roll down or up at ALL when raised. IE...maintaining the angle. So....if you scoop a pile of dirt and curl all the way back, and raise fully, whatever angle it was curled back to, will be the same angle it is at full height. So no spilling out the back OR front.

 

[jbwilson]

SG - If you are seeking more self-levelling, you may want to reposition the triangles by rotating it clockwise by one pin so that the long side of the triangles are connected to the curl cylinder base and the boom. That way the rod will push out, and therefore down on the curl cylinder base.

 

[npalen]

As a retired design engineer, I feel the need to make a point: No matter how a product is designed it will not fit everyone's needs precisely. You can please some of the people all of the time or please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

[jbwilson]

As a retired design engineer, I feel the need to make a point: No matter how a product is designed it will not fit everyone's needs precisely. You can please some of the people all of the time or please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Agree. Having another look at SG's issue, my suggestion would only work if the curl cylinders were lengthened by a few inches - which only SG can determine whether this is worth doing so.

 

[Westendorf-RR]

I've seen a couple types of self-leveling in the industry. A True Self-Leveling and a No Spill Self-Leveling. True is ideal for forklift work and stacking hay - No Spill is better for dirt or loose fine materials where it allows the the bucket to act like a non self-leveling loader for the first few feet when raising the loader. This eliminates the material from rolling off the front edge of the bucket. The location of where the leveling arms are attached to the linkage determines when the leveling function will begin. Here is a quick link to a loader we make that will tell you a bit more visually... (CLICK on the first button - self-leveling to pop up the window)

 

[jdixsign]

looks to me like adding a pin boss above the existing rear one could solve the un-equal geometry. I use mine with pallet bforks and it is necessary to have the forks stay level if moving bricks etc. My suggestion would be to raise the rearmost pivot so that the distance from the loader arm pin is equal to the theoretical distance of the triangular plate..center between the 2 top pins... measure that distance and raise the rear pin boss to be equal to it. Any increase will help. As far as lifting a bucket of loose material and having the bucket tilt back it will always spill over the back if the bucket was full. When you fill th bucket and tilt it back only enough to "ballance the load" it should stay at that level. Not spill backward. Many machines do but that doesn't mean it's right. in my opinion. You could do some measurements to check the theory beforehand even on your photos. Use a drafting compass..
Good luck.

 

[NICKB304]

Does it stay pretty level up until the mid point of the lift then start to roll back? That is the way it seems to work on my dads big JCB backhoe. the geometry causes it to roll back slightly as you get up to the mid point (0-5/6ftish) but it curls back faster as you go past that range then ends up looking like yours at max hight. it works well for putting pallets and what not on trailers and in trucks and moving stuff around, but it also works well for loading dirt into dump trucks at max lift.

 

[milkman636]

................................From, near the page bottom:
Front-End Tractor Loaders by Westendorf: Shade Canopy, Snow Plow, Hay Equipment

View attachment 280322

This illustrates another test that might be performed before any modification. Start with the bucket rolled back at the bottom and then raise to full height and see if it rolls forward to level.
Maybe the liability department had some influence on designing more toward not showering the operator.