Kama TS 254C TPH slowly fails

[grsr3]

Hello to everyone---long time no see. Things been good---or self solveable---til yesterday. Had my back blade on and dragged a big bunch of stones and other debris into my wooded dump pile and noticed my blade wasn't going up as high as it normally would. Thought the upper link adjusting bar loosened up so I turned it in all the way. The next load was worse and about a half hour later it was down and wouldn't move. Everything else (loader) was fine. Tried to move hitch when loader was quickly lowered to check for a low fluid condition but that didn't help. Saw plenty of fluid going up my overflow tube.
Checked the hitch speed knob at the front of the reservoir box to be sure it was turned out enough---and it was. Moved the position and draft controls up and down numerous times but nada. Don't know what to do.
Also--now, that I am thinking about--I was boring some post holes a few weeks ago and remember that the post hole digger would bounce off the ground when I was driving back to my garage---and when the hitch was all the up it wouldn't normally do that. I didn't give it much thought at the time. So this problem has probably been brewing for a while.
Anybody got any thoughts on this???
George

 

[greg_g]

O-ring and wiper(s) on the lift cylinder are torn. The fact that you were using a PHD pretty much confirms it. At some point, the lift arms over-extended upwards - permitting the piston to extend from the cylinder. Upon lowering, the seal and wiper(s) were damaged when pulled back inside the cylinder walls.

Repair kit is cheap, just sort of a long and messy job.

//greg//

 

[sjb]

I would not assume it is the lift cylinder o-ring and wipers witout checking further. This is a Kama TS254. It has a similiar lift box to the 300 series Jinma. It is my understanding that the lift cylinder over extending is mainly a 200 series Jinma problem.

I have had problems with o-rings blowing out in the lift control valve on my TS254. This could also be causing your problem.

I would tke the cover off of the lift box, start the tractor, and try to raise the 3 point hitch. See where the fluid is going.

If it is coming out of the end of the lift cylinder, then it is likely the lift cylinder O-ring / wipers.

If it is coming out of the control valve below the fluid level, then your problem is in the control valve.

If it is spraying out of the control valve above the fluid level, your releif valve is stuck open.

 

[grsr3]

Thanks guys---good stuff. Just talked to Chip at "Artrac" and he also thinks it may be something other than the lift cylinder. He said if it were the cylinder it would still raise somewhat---mine doesn't move a bit. He also suggested it may be a mechanical disconnection somewhere in the draft/postion control assemblies. Will check that first and then the box. Never been in there before but I do have both the owners "Anual" (their spelling-not mine) and the parts blow-up catalog. They should be helpful. If I get stuck I will be in touch. Also thinking that while I am in there is there something I could do to "beef up" the whole lift assembly, ie-bigger or better quality cylinder or valve assembly or linkages, etc.????

Thanks again,

George

 

[grsr3]

Should you normally see movement of fluid in the reservoir when operating the tph?? I do see a mild flow (movement of fluid) below the top level right around the control valve when operating the hitch. Strangely the hitch goes up and down with me riding on it but when I connect the back blade it tries to go up but quickly seems to get stuck. I'm 170 lbs. and the blade is probably about the same--maybe less---it's a light duty---not very heavy. Also noticed an adjusting bolt next to a plugged outlet tube. If I turn that in it contacts a button on the side of the control valve. If tightened all the way it stalls the motor when operating the hitch---so that has to be backed out enough to allow that button to remain out. Not sure what that's about. This is NOT the adjusting knob used to control hitch dropping speed. Do you know of anything in the control valve that would cause the hitch to act this way??

 

[greg_g]

Not sure what that's about.

That's an internal diverter valve, controlled by turning that external hex head. One way directs the flow to the lift, the other way diverts flow to a single remote. If the remote is capped, the fluid has nowhere to go. The pump deadheads, the engine stalls. If you don't use that remote, the valve should be positioned to divert full flow to the lift.

The fact that the lift goes up by itself is related to the fact that your rear hydraulics are PTO driven. The spinning flywheel causes some parasitic rotation of the PTO friction disc, which in turn pumps a small amount of hydraulic fluid. The lift goes up when lightly loaded. If it's not a problem, ignore it. Otherwise you could back off on the PTO pressure plate just enough to reduce the parasitic drag on the PTO friction disc. The gap is shown in your owner's manual.

//greg//

 

[bluechip]

Oil flows whenever the pump is turning. On your tractor, the pump is driven off teh input shaft of the PTO gearset. the input shaft is engaged and disengaged by a lever by your left heal. I suggest making that lever shorter than factory so you don't accidently disengage it. It can be difficult to engage and the splines are a little too soft and easily damaged. The PTO is controled by a 3 position lever near and a little behind your left hip. this lever does not have to be in gear to run the pump. the normal configuration is that the pump is running all the time, so you will see motion in the tank (lift box) when the pump is running, there are 2 places the oil can come out, one is lower and always flows (unless fluid is diverted to a cylinder) the other is the pressure relief valve it is higher on the block toward the front of the tractor, it will make a mess if it pops with the cover off the lift box. At the rear is a set of controls attached to the position and draft lever, these controls position cams that act on the valve which is on the rear side of the block attached to the cylinder in the lift box. raising the lift lever moves the cam in and raising the lift arms moves the cam out. make sure all of this is attached properly. there is a turnbuckle type adjusment, but it can be a little tricky to get it right.

Some TS tractors 3 point lifts will raise without a load. I have always held that this is because the "exhaust" port in the valve or some orfice is too small for the higher capacity pumps we requested. in other words, the pump is pushing more fluid into the system than the exhaust port can dump, the result is a slight pressure build up, enough to lift empty lift arms. Lighter oil can help this, although with an implement attached, it cant build enough pressure to lift.

Now I am not clear, will your 3 point lift? will it lift with weight? and with the tractor shut off with the lift raised, will it stay up?

 

[sjb]

You normally should see movement of the fluid near the control valve when the arms are not being raised. As others have mentioned the flow from the pump has to go somewhere, it passes through the control valve into the resevoir. When you try to raise the lift arms the control valve will send the fluid to the lift cylinder, and the flow of fluid in to the resevoir should stop. If you see fluid movement near the control valve when trying to raise the hitch, you have a problem in the control valve.

It probably requires less force to lift you, standing on the 3 point lift arms, than it does to lift your rear blade because the weight of the rear blade is farther from the pivot point of the lift arms. It will require more force to lift the same amount of weight because the lever that it is lifting with is longer.

If your valve is leaking when you are trying to lift, it isn't that difficult to replace all the O-rings in the valve. There are 2 O-rings that are easy to nick when you are reassembling the valve. It took 2 tries on mine before I got it fixed.

I also found that the valve shown in the parts manual, that came with my ts-254, was close but not exactly the same as the valve that was in my tractor. I found a diagram of a valve from a Jinma JM304 online, and it matched what was in my tractor.

Stan

 

[grsr3]

Got it. Have to thank everyone for their help. There are two aspects to operating a hydraulic device--the mechanical part, like pushing a lever, and the fluid/hydraulic part. Chip was right when he said to check the mechanical first. I noticed that when I put the blade on it would try to lift just briefly (less than an inch) then stop---almost like something was jamming it. I checked all the linkages and adjustment bars to make sure there was no linkage jam--and there wasn't. I spoke to Chip by phone this morning and he said it sounded like it was shutting itself off like it does when it is fully raised. This idea led to a discussion about the upper link bracket that is spring loaded and should move inward about a 1/2" when the hitch reaches its highest point. I went back outside and disconnected the hitch adjusting bar from the upper hitch bracket so I could get a better look at that assembly. While the adjusting bar was off the upper connector I decided to try the lift again. It worked perfectly. I had isolated the problem to the upper link. To make a long story short there is a push rod that is contacted when the hitch is fully raised and the upper link rod is pushed into that push rod. When that contact happens it stops the hitch from rising. That push rod was out of adjustment because the lock nut on it was loose. I put the adjusting bar back on the upper link connector and began adjusting the push rod until the lift worked right. Put the lid back on and ready to go. Unfortunately I just noticed on page 34 of the owners manual is a whole section on lifter and draft control adjustment. I'll do it the right way the next time I'm back in that box.
George

 

[hoppy50680]

I am wondering if anyone knows where to get KAMA parts now that Chip at Artrac no longer sells them.. are there any dealers or parts suppliers here in the USA? thnks
Jack