Kinky Question: Chains or Straps?

[seasalt]

Just ordered a custom Top Hat 20' double axle (3500# ea.) "big pipe" trailer with 6 foot ramps, ramp storage, spare, HD diamond plate fenders, treated deck and a bulldog hitch, which will be used for among other things, to transport my 3720, FEL, BB, PHD, and possibly BH or brush hog. Figure 5000#'s worth of stuff nominally - sometimes less, sometimes more. Stout trailer - 8" channel steel for the neck - good price -$2200 with spare and electric brakes (one axle). Decided on the 20' due to repeated advice that 16' was too small if I had implements unless I planned to put my bucket up on the rail in transport - then would still be tight not allowing adjustment / centering of load.

Several questions actually: 1. ) what is the best way to tie down a tractor for transport? 2.) best to use chains or straps and how much damage should I expect on painted surfaces from chafing ? 3.) how best to rig - one person told me to tie it down so that it cant roll back and let the pipe rail stop any forward movement - sounds like a spring line on a large yacht (tied from an aft point and led well forward to a cleat on the dock creating a bit of tension and allowing minor spring action in case of heavy seas)? 4.)facing which way? 5.)center of gravity over axles or just ahead (heard weighting behind axle centers will cause it to wag)?

Finally, can I use the trailer to pick up materials (crushed rock, pallets of grass, mulch, etc. then leaving it hitched to my 4x4 suburban, and with the crank proped up, drive my 3720 up on the ramps and safely "push load" the FEL ? do I need to block up the front corners?

Oh yeah, what is the best rig to attach to my three point hitch to convert it to a 2" reciever so I can pull / park my trailer?. Have seen the vertical bar device advertised on TBN but they dont show the horizontal piece...?? Think I need a one piece welded unit with a cross bar. Dealer says hes "got stuff like that". Any expereince or recommendations on specific brands that are stable and easy to manage?

Darn, one last thing - my '05 suburban Z-71 4x4 has a special towing package, the rear el. brake connection and the auto leveling feature, what I need to know about the brake control box I need before waltzing into a trailer dealer and letting the them have my truck to put one in? Cost? types? good and bad?

Thanks much to all who have ideas to offer.

 

[hhw]

Hello,

Here is an opinion, just an opinion;

1. There are at least two extensive threads on TBN covering the chain/strap debate. I'd go with grade 70 transport chains at each corner and ratchet binders. I believe there is a new law requiring "buckets" to be secured independently to the trailer also, but I am not sure.

2. As far as which way to load, I prefer to load facing rearward whenever I can. However, you should load both ways in an attempt to determine which way gives the appropriate weight distribution. (i.e. all of equipment on bed and 10% total weight on tongue.) Definietly do not put too much weight to the rear, it will cause controllability issues (wag).

3. I have seen people do as you suggest regarding off loading a flatbed trailer. It just did not seem like an efficient operation. However, you need to do what you have to do to get the job done safely. One issue that can develop is once you have filled you bucket and start to back off the trailer, this will place a significant amount of stress on your hitch. Rear stabilizer jacks will help. If your ramps already have supports welded to them this is not an issue.

4. The cheap way to attach a receiver hitch is to use a standard drawbar, add a step bumper receiver hitch and a drawbar lock to one or both sides. I have put several of these together for friends. Cost break down isapprox.)

drawbar $23
hitch $29
lock$19

Total $71

The welded square prefab units will set you back somewhere between $100 & $200. depending on where you buy.

5. There is a good post on brake controllers if you do a search you will find a lot of good info. Tekonsha seems like a good bet.

 

[RRacing]

Use a Heavy duty draw bar ( Solid center) not the hollow tube type.

Jim

 

[rockyridgefarm]

My big worry. Finding quality strap, and or chain. Everybody is tripping over each other to offer the cheapest chain and ratchet straps. I have a terrible time finding quality ones, and knowing they really are. Maybe truck supply houses or equipmenty rental yards still have them.

Carrying a 5000lb $25,000+ tractor isn't the time to try your luck on a bargain bin ratchet.

 

[unreconstructed]

I just bought a 5203 and a Big Tex 20 ft 12PI trailer. We loaded it bucket first and boomed it to the c's welded to the front of the trailer. Just used one chain over the front axle of the tractor to each side of the trailer and one boomer. Also, boomed over the draw bar with one chain to the c's welded to the rear of the trailer with one boomer. Used 1/4 inch chain. Drove 250 miles and the tractor didn't budge--only adjusted it once.

Have moved some front end loaders etc with heavier chain but didn't see the need to go heavier for this. This might be too light duty for some folks. I haven't researched the DOT rules but the guy that sold me the chain didn't think I needed any heavier since I am hauling personal and not commercial.

The weight distribution seemed to be OK. This is a two axle.

Am going to take it about 150 miles round trip this weekend which will be a little rougher roads. Will use the same technique and will tell you how it goes. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cheers.

Unreconstructed.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Grade 70 transport chains, but I started that only after Dargo almost lost his tractor when his straps broke while driving down the road.

As for the controller, I'm looking at them now. The best controller is currently out of production and very expensive ($359). The one I like the second best is the Jordan Ultima unit, it is the only other one I found that has a physical connection to the vehicles brakes. Most of them (not saying they are bad) use a sensor of some type (typically inertia) to determine when and how hard to apply the brakes. The Jordan Ultima unit costs about $110 to $135 and is an American company. The best of the inertia controllers seems to be the Technosha Prodigy unit, I've seen that priced all over the map, but typically about $115, and if it makes any difference I believe it is a Japanese company.

What I don't like about the inertia controllers is they measure the nose dive of your tow vehicle to determine the need to brake the trailer and while they try to compensate for bumpy roads, I wonder how it would react when you brake while going up a rise in the road, etc. I think (JMHO) the physcial connection of the Jordan is the better choice. I also wonder about the inertial units and how they react after the trailer brakes heat up and brake fade begins. I think the best choice is the $359 Brakesmart unit because it actually measures the brake fluid pressure.

All said and done, I've decided on the Jordan Ultima unit. Perhaps I've over analysed this, but that's not a sin last time I checked. The reality is a $39 controller will work. I just want one I can count on, that needs little adjustment, and that performs very well. I have 2 of the cheap controllers now on 2 different tow vehicles, I may end up replacing both of those as well.

 

[QueBota]

AW Direct

Has a good selection of quality, American made, straps, chains, binders and just about anything else you need for towing or tow truck operation. They also have very good customer service.

Dave

 

[Dargo]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My big worry. Finding quality strap, and or chain. Everybody is tripping over each other to offer the cheapest chain and ratchet straps. I have a terrible time finding quality ones, and knowing they really are. Maybe truck supply houses or equipmenty rental yards still have them.

Carrying a 5000lb $25,000+ tractor isn't the time to try your luck on a bargain bin ratchet. )</font>

Agreed; big time! I darn near learned the very hard way to use chains rather than straps. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I still don't like to think about it! Anyway, it has been mentioned that AW Direct has quality U.S. made chains and ratcheting chain binders. It certainly does cost more than the stuff you get at Harbor Fright or Rural King, but as you said, why get cheap on making sure you don't lose your very expensive equipment?! I got off very lucky and I don't expect another warning.

 

[seasalt]

Listened to a knowledgeable dealer tell me today that electric brakes and their controllers were second fiddle to surge brakes - the kind that react to the forward push load on the tounge when the vehicle slows. Said the electrics take a signal from the cold lead of the brake lights - by my figuring that signal is either on or off. he said you can adjust the time and rate of braking all the way to lock-up with the box. Nontheless, the signal to the controller is either " start the timer and if the signal stays on - then keep braking harder" or "off". The surge brakes are graduated based on the amount of braking resistance the lead vehicle is creating. Dealer said, (he seemed very knowledgeable), the hydraulic systems last many times longer and are more dependable than the electrics.

That said, I am sure many electrics work fine out there and it sounds like the boxes vary in quality from ok to very good. I did like the sound of the graduated direct force response system of the hydraulics. Dealer did highly recommend brakes on both axles - so I called my fabrication co. (different dealer) and made that change.

Anyone have major issues with either type of brake system?

I found it additionally attractive that I didnt have to wire a dedicated (one vehicle only) box into my suburban, then hope I have it dialed in right and change it with loads and weather. The surge can be pulled with any vehicle, needs no box and is relatively foolproof in case my father in law wants to borrow it to pull it with his rice burner!

also as many have mentioned, reliability is no joke when hauling this much gear and $$.

somebody shout if I am headed down the wrong path with my logic. I'd like to seal this deal asap.

 

[Dargo]

I honestly would have to avoid that dealer. I've towed everything from excavators to boats to my tractors over the last 25 years with several different types of controllers. By a large margin, I prefer electric over the surge brakes on a trailer. There is no comparison in my experience. I recall dozens and dozens of times getting in and out of the truck and running back to try to adjust the stupid surge brakes on the trailer. That sucks! There is no comparison to just being able to reach down and change the settings while driving.

Also, I very frequently will reach down and add extra boost to the electric brakes on the trailer when stopping. This is especially helpful if you ever tow in the rain, snow, or even on gravel. Several times I've pulled a boat to a ramp that changes to a gravel road on the way. Just when you think you have the worthless surge brakes adjusted, you go on gravel and find that your tow vehicle cannot provide enough pressure to apply the trailer brakes enough. You then get to jack knife because you slide the tow vehicle trying to stop things. The same thing happens if it starts to rain, or even if you run across different pavements. You are completely unable to adjust to changing road conditions.

Another thing I distinctly recall about surge brakes is how totally worthless they are if you are ever in reverse. First, you have no brakes while backing down hill. If you want to back up much at all, you will have to disconnect the brakes or they will lock up on you while you are trying to back up up hill. They may have a new way of turning them off without getting out of the truck, but the last surge brakes I'll ever own required the driver to get out and turn the brakes off unless I was backing down a hill. So, either way, they do not work in reverse; either they prevent you from backing, or they do not work at all.

Oh yes, you may want to tell your dealer to look at an electric brake controller that is less than 20 years old. What he described to you about not having proportional control with electric controllers is completely inaccurate for most controllers that are even remotely modern. I haven't seen many lately that have not been capable of proportional braking along with the tow vehicle.

I generally try not to take any single side of an option too much, but I have way too much experience with surge brakes and electric brakes over the years to ever use surge brakes again. Good luck if you use them. Personally, I'd find another dealer. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif