Kioti CK3510 3rd Function Issue

[dfkrug]

Here is a diagram from the 3rd function valve instructions.

There is no PB port on your Summit H06 valve. You can't use the 'T' line to power the next valve in your series (the tractor AUX valve). That line is limited to 500psi, usually.

On my Kioti, I run a single diverter to the FEL to run my 4in1 bucket, and I run a long pair of hoses from the tractor AUX valve to run the 2-way front-mounted hydraulic mixer. In the latter case, I use only 1/4" hoses, but I run only at idle, and I still get some warm hoses.

 

[GrandpaSmurf825]

3/8" should be large enough unless one of the adapters is an orifice fitting. I'm with LouNY that the schematic gives some confusion in the plumbing. Except that you bypassed the new valve and it didn't change the issue. The hoses are new so the "shouldn't" be an issue. Hydraulic hoses don't suffer a great deal of loss unless you are running long distances. Not enough that you would see it in your situation at least. The only thing that I'm struggling with is why the extra valve is added between the loader valve and the rear remote instead of after it. Although the loader valve may have a power beyond already in it so then it would make sense. I tried to find a schematic for your tractor but didn't have any success.

I would inspect your hoses closely. It would be less likely but still possible for someone who was careless to over crimp a hose end and restrict flow. I've saw it happen in #4 or 1/4" hydraulic hoses to the point oil flow was blocked. So it wouldn't hurt to take a good look at the crimps on the hoses. Big hoses aren't an issue because it takes a lot more pressure to crimp a 1" or #16 hose. Just something else to look at.

 

[oldnslo]

There is no PB port on your Summit H06 valve. You can't use the 'T' line to power the next valve in your series (the tractor AUX valve). That line is limited to 500psi, usually.

I believe the Summit valve is industrial style D03 subplate mounted valve so tank port is potentially rated to 3000 PSI.

 

[GrandpaSmurf825]

So I was reading the documentation on the Summit site. Then looking at the photo you posted of your valve setup. I'm going to copy and paste what they have on their website. I count 7 lines on your valve. If that is correct you have it plumbed wrong according to what they have on their website. Here is their verbiage about it. It appears you are connected at the tank fitting and if you actually have a "PB" port then you are not getting the pressure and flow needed for the backhoe and 3rd valve. I may be seeing it completely wrong and if so tell me. It's early yet and I have only made a few mistakes so far today so I haven't hit my quota yet.


How do I find my power beyond on my loader valve?

"Typically, there are seven hoses or steel tubes connected to the loader valve. If only six hoses or tubes; there is no Power Beyond Port on your loader valve. The 1st four are connected to your loader for the up, down, dump, and curl functions. The fifth line comes from your pump to feed your loader valve. The sixth line goes directly to your reservoir so that when the pressure relief valve opens the fluid is dumped directly to the reservoir. The seventh line is connected to the “Power Beyond Port” on your loader valve, which is used to power other valves beyond the loader valve. On some loader valves there is a “PB” stamped on the valve next to the power beyond port. Some loaders indicate their power beyond port with green tape or a green mark on the hose or valve. Some loader valves have a power beyond sleeve inserted in the power beyond port. This sleeve looks like a nut; however, it is 3 to 4 times longer than a normal sized nut. On some loader valves there are no clues to help determine which connection is the power beyond port. Your owner’s manual may not even indicate the location."

 

[Kioti_Cole]

So I was reading the documentation on the Summit site. Then looking at the photo you posted of your valve setup. I'm going to copy and paste what they have on their website. I count 7 lines on your valve. If that is correct you have it plumbed wrong according to what they have on their website. Here is their verbiage about it. It appears you are connected at the tank fitting and if you actually have a "PB" port then you are not getting the pressure and flow needed for the backhoe and 3rd valve. I may be seeing it completely wrong and if so tell me. It's early yet and I have only made a few mistakes so far today so I haven't hit my quota yet.


How do I find my power beyond on my loader valve?

"Typically, there are seven hoses or steel tubes connected to the loader valve. If only six hoses or tubes; there is no Power Beyond Port on your loader valve. The 1st four are connected to your loader for the up, down, dump, and curl functions. The fifth line comes from your pump to feed your loader valve. The sixth line goes directly to your reservoir so that when the pressure relief valve opens the fluid is dumped directly to the reservoir. The seventh line is connected to the “Power Beyond Port” on your loader valve, which is used to power other valves beyond the loader valve. On some loader valves there is a “PB” stamped on the valve next to the power beyond port. Some loaders indicate their power beyond port with green tape or a green mark on the hose or valve. Some loader valves have a power beyond sleeve inserted in the power beyond port. This sleeve looks like a nut; however, it is 3 to 4 times longer than a normal sized nut. On some loader valves there are no clues to help determine which connection is the power beyond port. Your owner’s manual may not even indicate the location."

This is a picture from there installation instructions showing which port is the power beyond port. Based on this I think I have it plumbed as they have it shown in their installation diagram. I think it the location of the "T" stamp is a little misleading because it is closer to the upper port than it is the lower (tank) port.

 

[Kioti_Cole]

That diagram puzzles me, Were is the pressure from the pump feeding that?
Normally the pump would supply the loader valve (P), from the loader valve POWER BEYOND to your 3rd function P, from the 3rd function tank to the rear remote P.
Then the T from the loader valve and the rear remote T both go to the T (return).
Also all the flow for the rear remote has to pass through the porting of the 3rd function. I don't like 3rd functions so I have not paid much attention to them, I prefer diverter valves, but that's me.

It is definitely not the greatest diagram the they provide. I'm assuming that the port they have labeled "P" is actually the power beyond port and they just aren't showing the pressure line from the pump. If that is the case then the routing they show aligns with how you described it.

 

[Kioti_Cole]

I had a chance to look at the adapter fittings that the kit came with. The orifice in the adapter fittings (~1/4" ID) id significantly smaller than the factory steel line connection. That seems to me like it would be a significant restriction on the system. I am temped to upsize the JIC fitting from a #6 to a #10 to see if that would allow enough fluid flow to fix my issue. I'm just not sure if upsizing a couple of sizes would be enough to make a difference. I'm also not sure if I would have to upsize my hose size to be able to get a fitting with a larger thread like that.

 

[oldnslo]

What is the hydraulic flow for implement functions on your tractor. Doubtful that the 1/4” hole would cause the backhoe to not operate but anything is possible.

 

[oldnslo]

This is my attempt to recap what was done when installing the 3rd function valve.
1) The line from power beyond on loader valve feeding rear valve was removed.
2) A line was connected to power beyond port on loader valve and connected to P port of 3rd function.
3) Power beyond ( in this case T port) of 3rd function was connected to inlet port of rear valve where loader power beyond was connected originally.

NO other factory lines were changed.

The loader and 3rd function operate correctly but backhoe does not.

Stupid question but have you checked to confirm the quick disconnects to the lines to back hoe are fully connected?

 

[Kioti_Cole]

This is my attempt to recap what was done when installing the 3rd function valve.
1) The line from power beyond on loader valve feeding rear valve was removed.
2) A line was connected to power beyond port on loader valve and connected to P port of 3rd function.
3) Power beyond ( in this case T port) of 3rd function was connected to inlet port of rear valve where loader power beyond was connected originally.

NO other factory lines were changed.

The loader and 3rd function operate correctly but backhoe does not.

Stupid question but have you checked to confirm the quick disconnects to the lines to back hoe are fully connected?

That is correct. Yes, the lines to the backhoe are fully engaged/connected. The backhoe moves its is extremely slow and lacks power regardless of engine rpm. When bypassing the third function with the quick coupling I added, the backhoe picks up a bit of power and speed by not much.