Kioti Dk35 HSE won't start

[BDougherty]

Hello, my first post as I just purchased a used Kioti DK 35hse with 143 hrs. About a month ago. I am having a problem starting the tractor. I have reviewed a bunch of the threads on Kioti starting problems but I can't find an exact replica to my problem.

The tractor had the starting problem the other day. I took out all the fuses cleaned them and she fired right up. The tractor ran and started for 2-3 hrs of work and probably over 20 starts with no problem. Today the same issue occurred and I can't get it started.

I have made sure the tractor is in neutral, PTO cruise etc. are all off. When I turn the key to warm the glow plugs I hear a click, when I go to start the tractor there is a very quite click.

What I have tried:
I purchased a new starter relay, no start
I switched the start and stop relays, tractor tried to turn over (which it hadn't done before) but it would not fire.
Check the battery and it has plenty of juice
Sprayed electric cleaner into the ignition switch

Not sure what else to do, I am thinking maybe a bad ignition switch? Any ideas and advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[murphy1244]

Hello, my first post as I just purchased a used Kioti DK 35hse with 143 hrs. About a month ago. I am having a problem starting the tractor. I have reviewed a bunch of the threads on Kioti starting problems but I can't find an exact replica to my problem.

The tractor had the starting problem the other day. I took out all the fuses cleaned them and she fired right up. The tractor ran and started for 2-3 hrs of work and probably over 20 starts with no problem. Today the same issue occurred and I can't get it started.

I have made sure the tractor is in neutral, PTO cruise etc. are all off. When I turn the key to warm the glow plugs I hear a click, when I go to start the tractor there is a very quite click.

What I have tried:
I purchased a new starter relay, no start
I switched the start and stop relays, tractor tried to turn over (which it hadn't done before) but it would not fire.
Check the battery and it has plenty of juice
Sprayed electric cleaner into the ignition switch

Not sure what else to do, I am thinking maybe a bad ignition switch? Any ideas and advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Bryan

Jump the ignition with a screwdriver down by the starter. If it starts might be bad switch.

 

[k0ua]

Hmmm....I switched the start and stop relays, tractor tried to turn over (which it hadn't done before) but it would not fire.

Tried to crank or DID crank? If it cranked, (crankshaft rotated) Then the problem is the original start relay. It should NOT have started, because now the fuel solenoid would not have received its 1 second pulse from the fuel relay.

You mentioned you purchased a new start relay.. I assume you installed it, and did the engine crank? In other words there is no reason to expect a different result from replacing the start relay vs. switching the start and fuel relays. Could it be one or both of them are defective.

All that said, did you spray your favorite lube in the key switch and work it a few dozen times while spraying removing and cleaning the key? I used Fluid Film a couple of years ago to repair mine. It is available now at Lowes. Wonderful stuff. Come to think of it I haven't sprayed in now in over a year. The key switch is a known failure point especially if rainwater is allowed to get in it.

Good luck and get back with us.

 

[BDougherty]

So when I switched relays it did crank but didn't start. I installed the new relay, it was purchased from Napa. I don't know much about relays but they said it was the same one? Do I need a Kioti specic relay? Anyway he new relay produced the same results as the original no crank. This is where I became confused as i got it to crack with the stop relay.

I sprayed the ignition with lectra-motive electric parts cleaner did not do a few dozen times but multiple times, will try that again.
Thanks for all the help already!!

 

[murphy1244]

Lets start at the top. What is the battery voltage? Check cables with a ohm meter.

 

[BDougherty]

It was tested at Napa, 12v and 640 cold cranking amps.

 

[murphy1244]

It was tested at Napa, 12v and 640 cold cranking amps.

Did you check the cables. Its a known problem on these.

 

[Barrettseq]

Usually the ground wire bolted to the frame is corroded. clean that and you should be ok.

 

[k0ua]

So when I switched relays it did crank but didn't start. I installed the new relay, it was purchased from Napa. I don't know much about relays but they said it was the same one? Do I need a Kioti specic relay? Anyway he new relay produced the same results as the original no crank. This is where I became confused as i got it to crack with the stop relay.

I sprayed the ignition with lectra-motive electric parts cleaner did not do a few dozen times but multiple times, will try that again.
Thanks for all the help already!!

OK, when you swapped the start relay, and the fuel relay, (the larger one in the middle is the glow plug relay) you say it cranked but would not start.. GOOD NEWS you have found the problem.. now the tractor cranks right? Of course it will not start, because now there is no fuel going to the injectors as the fuel rack is not pulled back by the fuel solenoid because the old start relay, which is now in the fuel relay position is defective.. I say again, the good news is that it DID NOT START. If it had started, that would be BAD NEWS in that you would have no idea what fixed it. So take out the defective relay, and get a good one. The one from NAPA should have worked, if it is the same type and wired the same as the original relay. Many people have replaced them with generic relays with good results. Perhaps the one they gave you is no good as well or is defective in its own right.

But if you swapped them back to original configuration, and now it won't crank. Then you have found the problem.. Get another proper relay. If you need to repeat the experiment a couple of times to convince yourself then do so. But I believe you got a result and did not realize you have diagnosed the problem. Now all you have to do is replace the defective relay and be done.

 

[BDougherty]

James,
Thanks for the reply, I thought I had found the problem when I switch the relays when the new one did not work that's when I went to panic mode! Will check the new relay to make sure it is a match and or swap it out with a new one from Napa. Hoping the new part is defective and when I get a new one all will be well and good. Also, going through the battery connections and cleaning those up. Stupid question but can someone point me to where the ground in bolted to the frame?
Thanks again to all what a great site!
Bryan

 

[DK35vince]

Stupid question but can someone point me to where the ground in bolted to the frame?

Follow the ground cable from the battery and see where its attached to the frame, clean to cable and frame good at that point and reattach the cable

 

[k0ua]

If I remember correctly it is on the right side of the frame near the front... but as said just follow the negative cable. and it will lead you to the bolt. Be sure to let us know how you make out . I always use a grease on all connections as well to prevent corrosion. Tractors seem to be worse for corrosion than most auto's. i suppose being out in the weather a lot of the time does not really help things.

Here is a link on Amazon for some of these relays.

Amazon.com: 5 Pack - EPAuto 3/4 AMP Relay Harness Spdt 12V Bosch Style: Automotive

 

[ritcheyvs]

It sounds like you had a bad start relay but you actually replaced a good stop relay with the one from NAPA. When, when you swapped connectors between the identical start and stop relays you moved the bad relay to the stop circuit so you could crank the engine but the bad relay (now in the stop solenoid circuit) prevented it from starting.

Here's the thing: you really can't identify the start and stop relays by their location on the firewall because the connectors could be switched, even from the factory.

Since you have a spare relay on hand (which is probably OK) try substituting it for the two stock (start and stop) relays one at a time. If you have a bad relay, as indicated by your troubleshooting, it should start after you replace the true bad one.

 

[k0ua]

It sounds like you had a bad start relay but you actually replaced a good stop relay with the one from NAPA. When, when you swapped connectors between the identical start and stop relays you moved the bad relay to the stop circuit so you could crank the engine but the bad relay (now in the stop solenoid circuit) prevented it from starting.

Here's the thing: you really can't identify the start and stop relays by their location on the firewall because the connectors could be switched, even from the factory.

Since you have a spare relay on hand (which is probably OK) try substituting it for the two stock (start and stop) relays one at a time. If you have a bad relay, as indicated by your troubleshooting, it should start after you replace the true bad one.

I am about convinced to actually buy some of these relays for spares. I have never had a lick of trouble with mine, but as many people that come on here and post with relay trouble, I wonder how long it will be before I do. Having some spare on hand does not sound like a bad idea. The smart thing to do would be to swap in the spared now and put up the original OEM relays as known good relays, ready to put back in at the first hint of cranking or lack of fuel delivery problem. probably wouldn't hurt to have the 70 amp glow plug relay either.

 

[BDougherty]

The tractor is starting now! Knock on wood I think the problem is solved thanks to the help from everyone here. I tried everything suggested but I believe that the problem was the stop relay. I also believe that the relay from Napa was either defective (most likely) or the wrong one. I returned the Napa relay and got another put it in the start relay and got nothing. Replaced everything and moved the new relay to the stop relay and there she goes! Went ahead and purchased the five pack from Amazon. Thanks again for all the help. I really like this tractor but I hope not to have to constantly hunt down electrical issues but if I do I know where to go for some answers!!
Thanks again,
Bryan

 

[k0ua]

The tractor is starting now! Knock on wood I think the problem is solved thanks to the help from everyone here. I tried everything suggested but I believe that the problem was the stop relay. I also believe that the relay from Napa was either defective (most likely) or the wrong one. I returned the Napa relay and got another put it in the start relay and got nothing. Replaced everything and moved the new relay to the stop relay and there she goes! Went ahead and purchased the five pack from Amazon. Thanks again for all the help. I really like this tractor but I hope not to have to constantly hunt down electrical issues but if I do I know where to go for some answers!!
Thanks again,
Bryan

The only electrical issue I have had with mine was the key switch. A shot of Fluid film and it has worked 100% ever since, and that was 4 years ago. It has been a very reliable tractor... Oh, I take that back, I had the cruise module cold weather problem. When the temp was below 20 degrees the tractor would start in any range not just neutral. That was replaced under warranty. The tech came to the house and replaced and tested it in about 5 minutes. Only some of the run of modules had the problem. And none of the latter ones.

 

[kantuckid]

Thread recycle.
My 2010 DK35SEhas a similar problem. I was getting an intermittent but sometimes normal start so I checked out my battery and it was a tad low on voltage but not enough IMO to be the issue. I put a modern electronic jump pack on and it started but had not started using my old HF jumper pack-which possibly means nothing sine it was intermittent to begin with. I then checked the OE factory Interstate 75month battery and found it was 125 months old by calling the mfg. as the code was molded in such that it was hard to read. Side note on battery: per google info Interstate and Walmart Maxx are same batteries now. I will throw in that the old 75 mo battery was obviously heavier than the replacement with same CCA and CA ratings & Walmart has 3 year free replacement plus cheaper than all AP's box stores and Lowe's iusig my 10% vet discount.
Tractor does not start with new battery but was low on water from store so I topped it off and placed back on Battery Tender I mostly use in off season when tractor sits more.
Voltage is OK on battery and enough to start it, so I doubt the tender will "fix" things...
I read through this thread and will check the negative battery cable now. I already checked for PTO, etc. as this model it's bad for your knee to hit buttons when not intended.
Next to check would be a relay as I get a slight click on key turn before lunch break. Before new battery it either started or low click.

 

[kantuckid]

I found the cable to frame contact point rusty and cleaned it up but same no start.
My shop manual shows the outboard relay as the engine starter relay, 20/30amp with letters FVBD (on the tractor) and preheater relay 70amp in middle, and engine stop relay inboard 20/30 amp letters JIVD (on the tractor). Guess I'll try buying a relay?

Bought a new generic relay, tried new one and switching around the stop start relays too, same meager click.
In a.m. I'm going to hit it with the booster pack if no start after battery on tender all night. Next after that is stater solenoid across the top.

 

[grsthegreat]

I found the cable to frame contact point rusty and cleaned it up but same no start.
My shop manual shows the outboard relay as the engine starter relay, 20/30amp with letters FVBD (on the tractor) and preheater relay 70amp in middle, and engine stop relay inboard 20/30 amp letters JIVD (on the tractor). Guess I'll try buying a relay?

On my dk45 the 2 smaller relays are actually flipped from what manual shows. I verified this by unplugging each one and testing.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I found the cable to frame contact point rusty and cleaned it up but same no start.
My shop manual shows the outboard relay as the engine starter relay, 20/30amp with letters FVBD (on the tractor) and preheater relay 70amp in middle, and engine stop relay inboard 20/30 amp letters JIVD (on the tractor). Guess I'll try buying a relay?

If you haven't already, squirt some WD-40 in the key hole and cycle the key several times (and repeat).