Buying Advice kioti dk75 vs kubota and others

[MessickFarmEqu]

From some previous posts here, i have read (unconfirmed on my end) that some people have said their JD and Kubota dealers told them NOT to put chains on the front axle. My Kioti dealer and Kioti email from corporate said go for it. wont cause any issues.

so why do the other manufactures say its not a good thing.

because it messes with your 4WD ratio if your tractor is setup to have a lead. I'm not sure if anyone seems to be aware if Kioti does that or not, it helps a 4WD steer. People do it all the time, but from the OEM's persepective it does put strain on the driveline so they won't endorce it.

 

[art]

From some previous posts here, i have read (unconfirmed on my end) that some people have said their JD and Kubota dealers told them NOT to put chains on the front axle. My Kioti dealer and Kioti email from corporate said go for it. wont cause any issues.

so why do the other manufactures say its not a good thing.

We hjave a local wholesaler that continually will try to get us to sell his after-market parts. We know that his repairs don't last as we get them later. Some people don't care or look for additional business. We do also put chains on the front if the customer requests it with a warning of potential damage.

 

[art]

Have you had to weld kioti DKSE castings before? I assume you've welded up a few kubota ones? It would be interesting to know if they use different standards of steel/iron. I would assume that Korean industrial standards are pretty much the equal of Japan or US or Germany. Brazil, China, India not so much. My Dad does some QC consulting for off shore oil equipment suppliers and every project specs no Chinese or Indian content, in either raw materials or finished pieces. Not worth the "savings" if something goes wrong out there.

I read here that some tractors use aluminum castings for some parts which doesn't seem to makes sense to me at all on a tractor. Must be cheaper to cast aluminum given its very low melting point?

JD has been doing transmissions for a number of years in ag tractors.

 

[hydro2]

My Mahindra dealer said go for it. He felt it would not hurt a thing. He has been in the business 25 years plus. Chaining the front that is

 

[Hoosier Hay Man]

I like the dry clutch on my Ducati's also, but I like the wet clutch in my New Holland and my Deere. The biggest draw back in the DK75 is that it is a basic shuttle shift with a dry clutch. Understand that not that long ago, that's all you could get in a tractor that size and there is nothing wrong with them. 20 years from now it will be an easy tractor to fix. Dry clutches tend to wear faster and need to be changed sooner, that's all. You also need to come to a complete stop to reverse but in a big tractor it's not that big a deal.

The biggest drawback of the DK 75 when it first came out is that the price was not far off the Deere 5083e and for the $2k difference, I would take the Deere. I do not know what the current price is.

Case (and Kubota I believe) still sell tractors in that class with dry clutches and the Deere 5000 utility tractors are dry clutches as well. I'm waiting for somone to bring out a new hydrostat in that class of tractors. That would make one heck of a hay mowing machine....

IH built hydro ag and utility tractors in the sixties and seventies. It just never caught on in larger tractors. They are collector tractors now.

 

[charleyfarmall]

Yes IH did make some big hydrostats. I see them for sale now and again and there use to be an 800 series near me in TN.

I think we will eventually see big HST's again or more CVT's like the FENDT and the small Boomers.

 

[Hoosier Hay Man]

Yes IH did make some big hydrostats. I see them for sale now and again and there use to be an 800 series near me in TN.

I think we will eventually see big HST's again or more CVT's like the FENDT and the small Boomers.

Deere has been making CVTs for at least 10 years now. They have it in the 7000 and 8000 series tractors. I am a bit old fashion as I like the synchronized gear in my Kioti and Quad Range in my Deere. I drove a IH hydro grading a pullin track during a tractor pull and couldn't get use to it. I am sure the newer tractors with the pedals are lot nicer. Loader work I can see an advantage and matching ground speed cutting hay and baling hay that would be a nice advantage as well. I have only driven a CVT 7000 series Deere in the dealers lot when they came out. I can see CVT being easier on the towed implements as you don't get the jerk you get in power shift transmissions. Power shifting thru the stop lights in town in a 8000 series Deere is a lot of fun though.

 

[kubotachief]

I do realize that for many you the tractor that you own now is your first or second and that you probably have not driven more then a brand or two and maybe a hundred hours of use a year and ownership for five years before trading them in for a new one not trying to have it live for twenty years or more.
I've seen tractors set up with so much weight that they could not get to full RPM while going down the road in high gear, I've seen the charts on increased wear by over loading the tractors with ballast as well as repaired them. I've also seen the difference in the fuel consumption between heavy tractors and lighter ones. I've seen unbalanced tractors unable to do the same job as a tractor with the ballast in the proper place. I've seen tractors that are actually over weight from the factory for the horsepower they have.

So some people like there tractors set up heavy and we still sell them that way for the folks that feel they need it and there are others that might listen to someone who has the experience of selling many makes and models as well as working with them and set them up for many thousands of hours of economical use!

I do sell the original compact tractor as well as two other top brands as well but as always, different people buy for different reasons as well as different brands and dealers included.
I feel the most important thing is that people get good honest unbiased information when making there purchase. I do talk of Kubota often for good reason, experience with the industry and after all they are the industry leader.

The industry leader in what? Overpricing? Lightly made machines? I look at it this way.......heavy duty tractors weigh more than tractors that have been engineered to be lighter to save the manufacturer money. That's what it boils down to. You can't tell me honestly that a heaver tractor will not perform as well as a lighter?

Let's put a square baler and a loaded wagon behind a light tractor and a heavy. (you drive the light one, I will take the heavy) Let's turn down a steep hill. Who is going to be in stable safe control of their machine and who is going to be cleaning their pants? Let's then have a lifting contest carrying 3x3x8 big square bales across a slope and stack them on a trailer. A little weight and tire ballast goes a long way when we talk stability.

I don't want to cause problems but dealers need to come up with excuses to explain why their product is better. Maybe in some applications it is true. The only one I can think of is if you want to drive it across your well groomed yard the day after you got two inches of rain.

Weight is weight. Make it lighter and you as a manufacturer are cheating somewhere, if you would make it heavier then you would need to scalp the customer for a few more bucks.

 

[IslandTractor]

The industry leader in what? Overpricing? Lightly made machines? I look at it this way.......heavy duty tractors weigh more than tractors that have been engineered to be lighter to save the manufacturer money. That's what it boils down to. You can't tell me honestly that a heaver tractor will not perform as well as a lighter?

Let's put a square baler and a loaded wagon behind a light tractor and a heavy. (you drive the light one, I will take the heavy) Let's turn down a steep hill. Who is going to be in stable safe control of their machine and who is going to be cleaning their pants? Let's then have a lifting contest carrying 3x3x8 big square bales across a slope and stack them on a trailer. A little weight and tire ballast goes a long way when we talk stability.

I don't want to cause problems but dealers need to come up with excuses to explain why their product is better. Maybe in some applications it is true. The only one I can think of is if you want to drive it across your well groomed yard the day after you got two inches of rain.

Weight is weight. Make it lighter and you as a manufacturer are cheating somewhere, if you would make it heavier then you would need to scalp the customer for a few more bucks.

I wouldn't be quite as harsh on the Kubota design philosophy or manufacturing practices. They are state of the art machines in general but with a bias towards lighter weight because a large proportion (?majority) of the target customers are mowing lawns or fields as their most significant task. For mowing applications there is little downside to a light tractor and many upsides. As that was the original target audience for Kubota they appropriately built light tractors and that is now ingrained in their design philosophy.

As Art always points out it is pretty easy to add ballast when you need it. What is not so easy is to add bigger axles when you need them or a wider track or other design characteristics of identical horsepower tractors made by the "heavy" manufacturers. One place that this shows up is in how Kubota rates/builds loaders for their tractors. You can get a stronger loader at a given horsepower rating in most non Kubota brands especially in the heavier tractors. Why? Because while the Kubota could easily mount a more powerful loader and has the hydraulic capacity to run it, the weight saving philosophy means that they don't have as big front axles. Compare a 40hp light Kubota to an equivalent HP heavy tractor like a Mahindra or Kioti. Big difference in axle size. A good example of this engineering issue is actually seen within the Kioti lineup. The DK35se has only 3hp less than the DK40se and is the same frame but with smaller front and rear axles. As a result, Kioti will only mount a 1500lb capacity loader on the DK35se but will mount a 2700lb loader on the DK40se. If I recall correctly, you have to get over 50hp in the Kubota lineup before you reach loader capacities like you can get with the Kioti and Mahindra 40hp class machines.

 

[Martian]

Both are fine machines, but...

If your purpose in building a tractor is for mowing applications first, I am not buying your tractor. PERIOD. Why would you buy a tractor that was first designed to be a mowing machine where it only requires a weak frame, loader, axles, etc and second build a tractor that is designed to suit many purposes including mowing and rugged work, such as in the woods and around farms? If your buying the size of tractor discussed your not to worried about tearing a nicely manicured lawn if you want that size of a rugged tractor. That's like saying you want a 3500 dualie with a 20' trailer to be comfortable driving around and parallel parking in down town New York city. Your idea of building a mowing tractor first is outrageous, I'm not saying that's what Kubota does, but of it is, never buy one of their tractors. I know I wouldn't want a souped up lawn tractor doing real work.

But back to weight... I too don't understand the theory less weight.