Kioti Loaders vs Kubota

[IslandTractor]

Art and Neil have interesting points. I guess my question then is who needs a CUT that is engineered to last 10,000hrs? Expensive commercial equipment yes, but most CUTs are used by individuals in less stenuous applications. I'd guess (based on 50miles/hour driving a car) that 10,000hrs correlates to about 500,000 miles on a road vehicle. Sounds like a Mercedes 240D. I think I'd rather have a bit more performance or a less expensive equivalent vehicle that was solid for half that many miles or hours. The average CUT owner probably puts 100-200 hours/year on their machine. That works out to 50-100 years by Kubota engineering standards...not sure that is a really relevant goal for private use.

I don't need to be convinced that Kubotas are conservatively engineered but I still wonder about the compromises made to get the weight down on the B series in particular. I don't doubt for a nanosecond that those machines will do their routine lawn mowing tasks efficiently for ever but what happens when you do start using them for land clearing or less than delicate TLB tasks. I wouldn't expect them to fall apart but I wonder if under those conditions they would really last the fabled 10,000 hours.

Bottom line for me is that I would have been very happy with an equivalent Kubota for both of the Kioti's I have owned but the equivalent model in terms of real performance in the land clearing tasks I have would mean a bigger Kubota (HP and $$$) than the task equivalent Kioti (again, limiting this comparison to loader tasks).

PS, nice to see Art and Neil cruising the Kioti forum.

 

[Dmace]

I guess my question then is who needs a CUT that is engineered to last 10,000hrs? Expensive commercial equipment yes, but most CUTs are used by individuals in less stenuous applications. I'd guess (based on 50miles/hour driving a car) that 10,000hrs correlates to about 500,000 miles on a road vehicle.

Hey, just because you are not keeping your tractor for 60 years doesn't mean we're not...

By the way I just got a new truck to haul my tractor, it has less horsepower then my current truck and only seats two instead of six but I hear I can get 400,000 miles out of it before it needs work.

What do you think...?

 

[IXLR8]

By the way I just got a new truck to haul my tractor, it has less horsepower then my current truck and only seats two instead of six but I hear I can get 400,000 miles out of it before it needs work.

What do you think...?

Derek,
Nice truck I like the entrance to your home as well.

 

[Gittyup]

Just curious where the basis of 10K vs 3K hours comes from.

Art and Neil:
Of the botas we are talking about here (B and L series CUTs, except industrials, I guess), how many are you aware of with close to 10,000 hours? And how many of those have not had a major overhaul? About when do these Kubotas need an overhaul, if ever?

To the Kioti dealers (and Art and Neil):
How is it derived that Kiotis last 2 - 3,000 hours? About when do Kiotis need an overhaul?

 

[IslandTractor]

Just curious where the basis of 10K vs 3K hours comes from.

Art and Neil:
Of the botas we are talking about here (B and L series CUTs, except industrials, I guess), how many are you aware of with close to 10,000 hours? And how many of those have not had a major overhaul? About when do these Kubotas need an overhaul, if ever?

To the Kioti dealers (and Art and Neil):
How is it derived that Kiotis last 2 - 3,000 hours? About when do Kiotis need an overhaul?

I did not take their points as literal but rather an indication of how conservatively they feel the Kubotas are engineered. I'm sure they don't know how long Kioti's will last either. Not many CUTs will make it to even 3000-4000 hours before they are abandoned in a barn somewhere in favor of a new fancy solar/wind powered hybrid tractor anyway after diesel prices hit $50/gallon.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Just curious where the basis of 10K vs 3K hours comes from.

Art and Neil:
Of the botas we are talking about here (B and L series CUTs, except industrials, I guess), how many are you aware of with close to 10,000 hours? And how many of those have not had a major overhaul? About when do these Kubotas need an overhaul, if ever?

To the Kioti dealers (and Art and Neil):
How is it derived that Kiotis last 2 - 3,000 hours? About when do Kiotis need an overhaul?

I don't think either of us said anything about other machines out lasting Kioti's. I do think anyone can take an objective look at both forums you'll find many more problems with Kioti's than Kubotas, especially when adjusted for each companies market share and the tendency of irate owners to jump online and vent. Without a doubt you can attribute some of that to the companies perspective on quality engineering.

I do agree that the B's run on the light side for heavy loader work. When we put machines into that application we blast them down. Kubota typically will okay increasing the machines weight 50% with ballast. A vast majority of the applications that these machines go into benefit from a light weight tractor. I would not want a heavy B-series machine. If we need anything its a deluxe machine the size of the L-3400.

10,000 hours on a compact is pretty unheard of. 7000-8000 happens at times. In the utility tractor space you'll see 10-12,000 once and a while. Most Zero turn mowers are done around 1,500 and you can get 3000-4000 out of a Kubota, that's probably the most outstanding difference between an orange machine and their competition. We rarely need to overhaul engines simply due to day to day use.

 

[Yota_85]

Thanks to all responses.

To answer some questions that came up:

Yes, I'm aware the Kioti CK30/35 outweighs the B3030 by a large margin. And that is why the CK30/35 interests me. It seems like a good weight and priced less than a B3030.
A 3240 Grand L may be too heavy, large (size wise) and cost wise, even though it has a unbeatable loader.

I can attest to Kubota's dependability/reliability. Besides a few minor items with my B7610, it has been flawless for close to 5 years. If I decide on a Kioti, I hope that it will treat me just as well.

I am interested in a quick attack loader, to swap the bucket for forks. Lifting pallets in/out of my truck. I think the loader for the B3030 isn't up to this task. 1000-1500 lbs on a pallet. That's around half the weight of the tractor/loader/ballast combo.

A few suggested (from a price stand point) that the B3030 (around $18-$19K w/loader) buys you a DK35 in a Kioti. Though I know little of the DK series, from what I've read here, they weigh considerably more than the CK30/35.

I do have a lawn to cross guys. There could be such a thing as too heavy.

And also, I have a very hilly property. Some fields I have to mow cross wise. No way around it. The B7610 I have is pretty stable. Though a longer wheelbase and wider would certainly help. Considering either a B3030 or CK30 will be quite TALLER than my 7610.


Again, thank to all who responded.

 

[MDM]

The Kubota L2800/3400 may interest you if you want something larger than a 3030 about the same physical size as the CK30 with a tad less weight.

 

[Gittyup]

Kubota's design life time might be a bit higher then some of the other makes. Trying to build a tractor and attachments around a 10,000 hour life vs someone with a two thousand or three thousand life cycle is a lot different.

This statement was made, and then followed by one from Messick: "... bad thing is you'll sometimes find companies who will push the limit harder.", which one would assume he is talking about Kioti (perhaps among others) as if they are designed to marginal standards or workmanship.

I'm not trying to be defensive. I simply was wondering the basis of such statements. Are they conjecture or based on some factual information that most of us are not prevy to? These statements are far different than a general summation (which I agree with) that there appears to be a greater number of problems reported on the Kioti forum vs. Kubota, et.al. for the number of tractors sold by each brand.

 

[IslandTractor]

Art and Neal sell Kubotas. No way they are going to say anything that might be construed as approval of a Kioti. Little digs against the competition are fair game and near universal practice. I don't see their comments as any worse than what we dish out when discussing wimpy loaders on the other orange tractors.

The fact that they stay in touch with what is going on in this forum shows that 1) they are good businessmen/salesmen who need to know the competition and 2) Kioti is nipping at Kubota's big heels and is being noticed. I betcha three or four years ago they were focused almost exclusively on selling against JD and maybe NH. If they are smart (and they are) then it is only reasonable for them to keep up with Kioti and Mahindra looking for competitive advantage as well these days.