Kubota 47% -- John Deere 19%

[Rustyiron]

Also in the OP's link Mahindra North America Introduces Tractor Loaner Program | 217-4-28 | Rural Lifestyle Dealer
That would be very nice to have a "loaner" program. This is pretty normal with much more expensive "heavy equipment".

 

[Garandman]

I wonder if this is a Global market share or just the USA market share. The problem with market share it varies depending on how you pull it. For example if you pulled market share for horsepower 50-125hp I bet that would show a totally different percentage. I doubt Kubota would be out in the front with those horsepower numbers. With that being said, do not get so caught up in market share to determine a company success.

That was the point of the article: Kubota is successfully moving into higher hp ranges but needs larger dealers, so there is a lot of consolidation.

Kubota has 47% up to 80 hp: how many people you know with a Kubota tractor more than even 50hp?

The M series extends to 168hp but over 95hp are new.

 

[Kentuckyfarmer]

That's better then I expected. I like that Kubota makes all their tractors and isn't selling other brands painted orange and calling them Kubota's. I also like that their diesel engines are so good that other manufacturers use them, including Onan generators. Sadly, every time I go to the dealer to buy something, I end up going with some other brand that is more affordable. They are very proud of their success.

I agree, love the Kubota and had two so far. The b7200 was a little tank and it's still in the family and I like the bx23 I have now and use it almost everyday. But when I was in the market for a larger one I just couldn't pay that extra cost. I also wanted something that software wasn't controlling everything and I could work on. JD and Kubota just would not come close to the price and turned up their noses at me when I tried to talk what I considered a reasonable price. I don't think you can go wrong buying a piece of equipment with a Kubota motor in it. From skid steer to lawn mowers.

 

[dodge man]

This planting season was the first time I saw a Kubota doing planting. It was a larger M, maybe a 100 plus horsepower.

One problem I see with Kubota trying to get into the large tractor market is the dealer network. My local Kubota also sells Massey Ferguson in the larger ag tractors. I doubt they would be allowed to sell the larger Kubota's also.

 

[FatTire]

I sell Mahindra and Branson, as well as Deutz-Fahr for the bigger stuff. We go after the market hard and do great in our area, but I give a lot of respect to both JD and Kubota. Mahindra has some old school models, but not as many as they used to. There isn't a ton of profit in a low feature tractor. So Mahindra has added quite a few premium models in the last 10 years. I particularly like and sell a good quantity of their Japanese built models. The quality is quite good. And they source a good deal of the USA sold tractors from Korea, also good. The larger Indian built machines that are simple and robust are a good value.

I think the 80-150 HP market is a different ballgame. Guys that buy tractors of that size often use them hard and often. They are making a living off of them. If you are putting a tractor into this market seriously, it better be good. Kubota is pushing into that market, and it will be interesting to see how they do against JD.

Dave, to what extent did Kubota create most of the market for small HP tractors in North America? It seems like these days there are a ton of landowners in the 5 to 100 acre range who have a 20-60Hp tractor. One place that I drive past occasionally has a fairly big Kubota cab tractor (60 to 80 HP?) that seems to get used for about 2 weeks around Christmas/New Years for snow removal, and then for mowing 2-3 times in the summer. (Apparently a vacation home.) I think 25 or 35 years ago that guy would have just paid someone to do that stuff, or maybe plow with an old pick-up, but now these guys just buy a tractor. In another example I just bought a 5 year old Kubota with barely over 100 hours on it. That guy was just using it to snowblow is driveway a few times a year, and he had a box blade. I heard he was retired and thought the tractor was "fun" -- at least the first couple of years. Not many people made those kinds of purchases back in the 1980's.

So I'm wondering if Deere and Mahindra are selling more tractors now than they would have been if Kubota hadn't pushed so many reliable small tractors back 20 to 30 years ago??? Or was the expansion starting and Kubota just jumped in on it? (Or some of both?)

 

[DavesTractor]

Dave, to what extent did Kubota create most of the market for small HP tractors in North America? It seems like these days there are a ton of landowners in the 5 to 100 acre range who have a 20-60Hp tractor. One place that I drive past occasionally has a fairly big Kubota cab tractor (60 to 80 HP?) that seems to get used for about 2 weeks around Christmas/New Years for snow removal, and then for mowing 2-3 times in the summer. (Apparently a vacation home.) I think 25 or 35 years ago that guy would have just paid someone to do that stuff, or maybe plow with an old pick-up, but now these guys just buy a tractor. In another example I just bought a 5 year old Kubota with barely over 100 hours on it. That guy was just using it to snowblow is driveway a few times a year, and he had a box blade. I heard he was retired and thought the tractor was "fun" -- at least the first couple of years. Not many people made those kinds of purchases back in the 1980's.

So I'm wondering if Deere and Mahindra are selling more tractors now than they would have been if Kubota hadn't pushed so many reliable small tractors back 20 to 30 years ago??? Or was the expansion starting and Kubota just jumped in on it? (Or some of both?)

You bring up some good thoughts. I had not really considered that Kubota's success may have been a huge help to other brands that then jumped into the small tractor market. My thought was that they saw the potential, and just beat everyone else to the punch. Probably some of both.

 

[rustyshakelford]

I hope they get American focus groups for R&D for cab ergonomics. When I was shopping at the end of last year for a 100+ hp cabbed tractor I looked at the kubota. It was the M5 series I think. I hated the layout. The shuttle shift was not like any I had ever used and was not easy to operate. On one of the ones I drove, I had to lean way forward to operate the loader control. I didn't like them at all. I know it's personal preference and lots will like them but as a whole there's a reason they don't have much market share. They have a loyal following in the smaller stuff but need to focus on thinking someone will be in the machine all day and to make things easier. Also, they are typically the lightest in the class. Where are they saving weight and why are they continuing to do it?

Brett

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Where are they saving weight and why are they continuing to do it?
Brett

There is difference in their philosophy when it comes to weight. Generally raw tonage is not looked at as a good thing. Its better to start with a lighter tractor and ballast it for the application than to be stuck with a heavy machine you can't setup right for the job.

I'd agree their cabs in the higher series lack the egronomic thought and high-end feel that a CNH or Deere tractor has. You can tell CNH uses automotive designers from Fiat in their stuff. The cabs are getting near car like. Kubota is not there, but they are generally quite a bit less expensive as well. M7 is better and shows they are capable of doing it.

 

[rustyshakelford]

There is difference in their philosophy when it comes to weight. Generally raw tonage is not looked at as a good thing. Its better to start with a lighter tractor and ballast it for the application than to be stuck with a heavy machine you can't setup right for the job.

I'd agree their cabs in the higher series lack the egronomic thought and high-end feel that a CNH or Deere tractor has. You can tell CNH uses automotive designers from Fiat in their stuff. The cabs are getting near car like. Kubota is not there, but they are generally quite a bit less expensive as well. M7 is better and shows they are capable of doing it.

That makes sense on the ballast I guess. I just look at it from the lighter components standpoint. I figure they are using less metal to save weight thus creating a weaker tractor. I'm sure that's not the case but that's the first thing that comes to mind.

Brett

 

[Garrett Wiggins]

There is difference in their philosophy when it comes to weight. Generally raw tonage is not looked at as a good thing. Its better to start with a lighter tractor and ballast it for the application than to be stuck with a heavy machine you can't setup right for the job.

I'd agree their cabs in the higher series lack the egronomic thought and high-end feel that a CNH or Deere tractor has. You can tell CNH uses automotive designers from Fiat in their stuff. The cabs are getting near car like. Kubota is not there, but they are generally quite a bit less expensive as well. M7 is better and shows they are capable of doing it.

A couple things to point out, the weight of a tractor is what is going to make a tractor work. Extra ballast is very expensive, so you would have to have to add the addition cost of the "extra ballast" to the cost of the Kubota; which is still available for the Deere if you need it. If you decided to just cheap out and use water, you lose horsepower. A few years ago Kubota got into a lot of trouble with over rating horsepower and I believe they still wont take their tractors to Nebraska to have them properly tested by an independent company like most other color of tractors. Just something to think about.

 

[smstonypoint]

A few years ago Kubota got into a lot of trouble with over rating horsepower and I believe they still wont take their tractors to Nebraska to have them properly tested by an independent company like most other color of tractors. Just something to think about.

Here's a listing of the Kubota tractors that have been tested by the University of Nebraska lab: Other Manufacturers | Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory | University of Nebraska–Lincoln.

It is my (mis?)understanding that tractors above a certain HP have to be tested at the lab before they can be sold in Nebraska.

Steve

 

[Garrett Wiggins]

Here's a listing of the Kubota tractors that have been tested by the University of Nebraska lab: Other Manufacturers | Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory | University of Nebraska–Lincoln.

It is my (mis?)understanding that tractors above a certain HP have to be tested at the lab before they can be sold in Nebraska.

Steve

Been a awhile since I have been to the site. One thing is strange, but worth noting. Johndeere sends almost every tractor in for testing and Kubota just sends a few. I wonder if Kubota only sends that ones that will pass for true horsepower ratings. Johndeere fills the whole page with tractors they send. I don't think the location of the test, I am assuming Nebraska, has anything to do with where those tractors can be used. I think that is just where the third party test them at, but I am not 100% sure on this.

 

[coralhead]

Yea, best I can tell, in the under 80hp CUT segment, Kubota and Yanmar are the only two tractor companies left that build the entire machines from the ground up.

Maybe Kioti as well? I'd have to research it.

Kukje Machinery (Branson) builds their entire machine.

 

[daugen]

My local Kubota dealer has two of the largest M7's on their lot, biggest tractor they have carried likely, even when they were an IH dealer for ages.
I'm sure Kubota put pressure on them to buy them, get them out in front of folks. Huge tractors, dominates their yard. And they aren't generating a lot of interest apparently.
I was told quietly big ag was "down" and commodity prices were down so at least in this area, the big equipment was not moving. Last Fall the local Massey
dealer told me the same thing. In other words a contracting market not an expanding one. Deere's sales are very indicative and while you'll never catch a sales guy
saying business is bad, in the larger commercial ag market, which I honestly know little about, that's two locals who have indicated negative trends. Now for us SCUT and CUT guys,
the market may be expanding, particularly second and third world. And I'd say India was pretty close to "1st World" now; look at their naval vessels, their military with atomic weapons
and their cities. And don't forget Bollywood. India has to feed a huge amount of people so farming there has to be big. Same thing in China and there you might be going all the way down in the market to folks who used to use a mule or cow. The issue is small plots, and therefore the need is different. Does China or India have a "big Ag" market at all?
Borneo? now that's 3rd world...when the monkeys are jumping on your hood.

 

[BAP]

Would you mind sharing which brand tractor you sell? if not I understand. Your totally right about a tone of BX to one 200hp tractor of any brand. That's one of the points I was trying to make about market share. Depending on how you pull the numbers will depend on what result you get. I am sure Johndeere uses dollar numbers to get their inflated market share and Kubota uses units to get their inflated market share. Which ever measure gives them the best results. I have all of respect for Kubota they make good tractors. Mahindra does go after that 75hp and less market no doubt. Mahindra sell a lot on price. I believe they are about 3 grand less off the top of either deere or Kubota. Mahindra uses ALOT of old technology, but for someone who puts less than 50 hours on their tractor in a year; the color of tractor hardly matters.

How do you get "INFLATED" market share by using number of units sold? From the replies to this thread you can tell who ones what brand by their replies. I have owned a lot of John Deere tractors over the years but they have shot themselves in the foot by not producing their own small tractors made in the United States. Also, they have forced many old, smaller dealers out of business and small rural areas. Instead of traveling 20-30 minutes to a dealer you now have to travel 2 hours to a dealer in my area.

 

[Garrett Wiggins]

My local Kubota dealer has two of the largest M7's on their lot, biggest tractor they have carried likely, even when they were an IH dealer for ages.
I'm sure Kubota put pressure on them to buy them, get them out in front of folks. Huge tractors, dominates their yard. And they aren't generating a lot of interest apparently.
I was told quietly big ag was "down" and commodity prices were down so at least in this area, the big equipment was not moving. Last Fall the local Massey



dealer told me the same thing. In other words a contracting market not an expanding one. Deere's sales are very indicative and while you'll never catch a sales guy
saying business is bad, in the larger commercial ag market, which I honestly know little about, that's two locals who have indicated negative trends. Now for us SCUT and CUT guys,
the market may be expanding, particularly second and third world. And I'd say India was pretty close to "1st World" now; look at their naval vessels, their military with atomic weapons
and their cities. And don't forget Bollywood. India has to feed a huge amount of people so farming there has to be big. Same thing in China and there you might be going all the way down in the market to folks who used to use a mule or cow. The issue is small plots, and therefore the need is different. Does China or India have a "big Ag" market at all?
Borneo? now that's 3rd world...when the monkeys are jumping on your hood.

There is some truth to the large Ag equipment going down, but that was started about 2-3 years ago and has gotten a lot better since then. The problem was that to many dealers were pushing volume and saturated the market with large Ag. Had to many people trading tractors every 2 years on a set amount and to many leases that were in 2 year contracts. There were lots of bruises being had when you have used inventory on the lot with to much money in them.

 

[daugen]

I wish Kubota made a 300hp straight six diesel for my truck.

However...in the game of who owns whom, is Kubota
owned by Toyota? I know Aisin the exceptional transmission company is owned by Toyota.
Too bad Honda never tried to get into this market. I know they fooled around with garden tractors and maybe they had a small
diesel market over there. But there's another very high engineering standards company whose engines have always been
cutting edge. Look at their GX series of small engines, marvelous stuff.

Instead we get Daedong and other strange named, but also very good engine manufacturers in our SCUTS and CUTS and we sort of scratch our head
and hope the dealer has the parts we need. My choice was between Kioti, JD and Kubota. The Kubota was a little cheaper than the
JD and the dealer was the nicest. Plus Kubota is a remarkably well trusted brand now. I doubt there are major delays in getting Kubota parts.
In fact if there were any delays at all that would not be good for any of the large builders. I bet more than a few folks have changed brands when they waited a month or two
for a part on an almost new tractor.

Btw, my understanding is that Daedong is a really good diesel engine, which is one reason why Kioti is doing so well.

Tractors are fairly similar at certain levels. Having an exceptional engine I think could
get a buyer's interest. Unfortunately now what is most getting attention is DEF and regen issues.
I'm sure mostly operator error in many areas but make things
more complicated and user errors can't help but go up. I'm delighted I own two tier IV interim tractors.
They don't stink and they don't smoke. All good social qualities...

I could not be happier with my Kubota, other than a rough ride and unimpressive loader power. It has never had
so much as a hiccup in almost five years. And it drives so easily and the treadle makes loader work so easy.

I want to know when someone is going to build a 100 hp treadle M5 Kubota equivalent. Why can't they build a heavier duty hydrostatic to work
with a treadle? They seem to have all just stopped at about 70hp a long time ago. I always wondered why even with the fuel penalty why someone
doesn't scoop the market on that. I have a 57hp tractor and if I wanted to move up, and go to 80 to 100 for much stronger loader power,
I have to learn how to use an entirely new transmission. I know they aren't hard, but why give up on foot pedals?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Here's a listing of the Kubota tractors that have been tested by the University of Nebraska lab: Other Manufacturers | Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory | University of Nebraska–Lincoln.

It is my (mis?)understanding that tractors above a certain HP have to be tested at the lab before they can be sold in Nebraska.
Steve

It has sounded to me like the Nebraska test lab is a bit of a political tool in the tractor business. Deere funds it heavily. There are international standards and international testing labs that Kubota partisiptes with, but for some reason Nebraska chooses not to accept those results. I've heard its a very expensive and time consuming process to get at a tractor though their lab. Nebraska is not a huge market for the size equipment Kubota typically sells, so for them its made more sense to only run though the higher volume models and ignore the rest where they can't justify the expense. Every dealer has a Dyno, I can't tell you the last time I heard of any new tractor not turning at least its rated PTO HP. A company would be in court in a heartbeat.

 

[daugen]

wouldn't it be nice to have John Deere (or anyone) build something we can afford with a Cat engine and an Allison transmission?
wake me up I'm dreaming

 

[smstonypoint]

It has sounded to me like the Nebraska test lab is a bit of a political tool in the tractor business. Deere funds it heavily. There are international standards and international testing labs that Kubota partisiptes with, but for some reason Nebraska chooses not to accept those results. I've heard its a very expensive and time consuming process to get at a tractor though their lab. Nebraska is not a huge market for the size equipment Kubota typically sells, so for them its made more sense to only run though the higher volume models and ignore the rest where they can't justify the expense. Every dealer has a Dyno, I can't tell you the last time I heard of any new tractor not turning at least its rated PTO HP. A company would be in court in a heartbeat.

To add to the confusion, here's what the UN lab has to say.

The University of Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory (NTTL) is the officially designated tractor testing station for the United States and tests tractors according to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) codes OECD codes. Tractors are tested in the country of manufacture. Twenty-nine countries adhere to the tractor test codes (including non-OECD members: China, India, the Russian Federation, and Serbia) with active tractor test stations in approximately 25 of those countries. Reciprocity agreements with the codes require that once an OECD test report is officially approved, it must be accepted by all participating countries.

Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory | University of Nebraska–Lincoln

Steve