Kubota fuel-water separator for common rail engines

[5030]

Was just talking to my Kubota technician as I've been considering installing Racor filter-separators on my M9000's to insure I don't get water in my fuel and he informed me that now Kubota is putting a version of the Racor's on the new common rail T4 final tractors from the factory.

The common rail high pressure injection on the new T4 final tractors won't tolerate any water.

He also told me would probably be a waste of money (Racor's aren't cheap) to install them on my M9's as the conventional injection will tolerate some water without an issue.

I'm careful with my fuel anyway and rarely have any water in the filter bowl.

 

[LouNY]

I'm not sure how much water they can handle a few drops maybe.
But, I do know what happens when an IH 1256 gets a slug of water that gets past the filter.
She actually gained HP for a few seconds before she quit. The pump pistons seized and the pump driveshaft sheared.
With the 4 bottom turn over plows still at plowing depth.
Nothing a new pump didn't take care of, which is fun installing in the middle of a field.

 

[5030]

All I am aware of is the new common rail systems and water are not good partners. I tend to keep and eye on my sediment bowl and change fuel filters at least every spring. Mine has a little red ring in the sediment bowl that floats on top of any water so I have a visual reference all the time. Like I stated was considering a Racor but my Kubota tech told me I was wasting my money, they ain't cheap.

If you ever consider one, don't buy it on Amazon. 99% of them are Chinese knockoff's. Buy from the Racor Store.

 

[5030]

Nothing a new pump didn't take care of, which is fun installing in the middle of a field.

I bet. Not something I'd want to do. Always my biggest fear is having a major breakdown in a field far from the barn.

 

[Anakist]

If you're worried about water and don't want to spend on a water separating filter, get into the habit of using a water dispersant in your fuel. Tiny water droplets suspended in diesel are fine and will actually help hp, liquid water in diesel pumps goes bad quickly.

James

 

[5030]

Not with a common rail engine. Any water is bad juju. Obviously, Kubota is getting concerned if they are mounting a Racor style separator on the new tractors.

 

[big bubba]

5030: ok so if your separator bowl is fairly clear, you can easily tell. of course factory has fiber discs in the bowl to alert, etc. so are you finding your high volume source (hopefully) with water contamination, or might it occur on your end? can't really advise you on after market filters, i'm clueless. my consumption is low compared to yours, & i circulate w/5 gal containers. Sure am glad i don't make my living in agri...

i do hear you on potential water contamination risk even with us both with pre tier 4 injector pumps. in fact i just changed from Howes to Optilube given reviews on recent water related catastrophes.. devil's in the details, hopefully prior to catastrophe
as a footnote, always considered M9000 series best utility tractor till...MXX40 series, but only small differences
i'd say ours are comparable

 

[tacticalturnip]

Is this, roughly, what you're looking to add? The recent threads regarding Racor had me on their website looking around.

 

[ruffdog]

An emulsifier will help suspend the water so your tank stays cleaner...BUT...if you have a high pressure common rail system, it may be at the cost of your injectors and pump. If that is the case, you are better using a demulsifier and mechanically removing the water that drops out.

"Emulsifiers encapsulate water droplets and pass them through the fuel system to be vaporized and expelled during the combustion cycle. Demulsifiers cause water to precipitate out of the fuel where it can be separated mechanically by water separators or other means."

E-ZOIL | Emulsification vs. Demulsification.

 

[5030]

Is this, roughly, what you're looking to add? The recent threads regarding Racor had me on their website looking around.

That is the one but the one I want (If Parker Hannifin Techs tell me it's good) is the one with the built in primer pump. Waiting for them to get back to me. The Racor Store person gave me the tech number and email address for the company. He didn't know for sure so he directed me to them. They come in various micron ratings from 30 all the way down to 2 micron and they all have the 'aquablock' technology. Flow isn't a big deal, neither of my M's consume a lot of fuel. Very frugal when it comes to fuel usage. I ran all my first cut hay, cut, rake and round bale on 35 gallons total between 2 tractors. Of course I make sure the air filters are clean, tires are inflated properly and everything is greased. I will say I 'cheated' a bit and kept the ac on when the tractors were sitting.

My tech says I don't really need them and maybe I don't, but then an ounce of prevention is always worth a pound of cure. My International Eagle conventional in the barn has a bigger Racor on it but it's different. It has a screw off top and the filter goes inside.

I know if I had a common rail motor, I'd dang sure have one.

 

[5030]

5030: ok so if your separator bowl is fairly clear, you can easily tell. of course factory has fiber discs in the bowl to alert, etc. so are you finding your high volume source (hopefully) with water contamination, or might it occur on your end? can't really advise you on after market filters, i'm clueless. my consumption is low compared to yours, & i circulate w/5 gal containers. Sure am glad i don't make my living in agri...

i do hear you on potential water contamination risk even with us both with pre tier 4 injector pumps. in fact i just changed from Howes to Optilube given reviews on recent water related catastrophes.. devil's in the details, hopefully prior to catastrophe
as a footnote, always considered M9000 series best utility tractor till...MXX40 series, but only small differences
i'd say ours are comparable

Both of mine have been excellent units and really, other than odd stuff like a front crank seal on the 2002 and a worn out left outboard bushing set, I've had zero issues. Had them both into the dealer for the valve adjustment and injector pop test and my Kubota mechanic says both are just peachy. Had some ac issues with the 2004 but it was partially my fault as I didn't remove the roof and clean the ac evaporator in a timely manner, something I do yearly now. My ac will freeze you out no matter how hot it is outside. Had them (dealer) top off the refrigerant this last time too.

Both hydraulic shuttles so no clutch to wear out either. Both have the creep gears and the 2 speed pto.

Be my last tractors I ever own. I fully expect them to outlast me.

The mechanically injected pre 4 tractors are really increasing in value too. Told my wife, when I pass, don't sell them cheap .

I believe most contaminant issue with fuel come from excessive handling more than anything else. My fuel supplier drops my fuel in the bulk tank and I pump it into the tractors. Minimal handling involved. I do add biocide to the tank and powerservice plus I use Archoil AR 6500 fuel additive (I know snake oil) but we all have the snake oil thing...lol Archoil has really improved the operation of my Powerstroke Ford pickup so why not.

I bought the first one in 2002 and the second one in 2004 and I thought my wife would kill me when I did. She understand now that an old man like me really needs 2 tractors because constantly changing implements is a royal pain and I usually need her to help me anyway. Getting pretty crotchety and surviving cancer didn't help any.

Things I used to do and thought nothing of are now monumental tasks that take planning. Tough getting old.

 

[alexpops]

"Tough getting old."

All things considered, it still beats the alternative.

 

[MHarryE]

Interesting that someone would recommend a dispersant in diesel for mechanical pumps. Stanadyne was our supplier for mechanical rotary injection pumps from prior to Tier 1 through Tier 2. We switched to common rail Tier 3. Stanadyne told us not to recommend a dispersant. It disperses it making it easier to get into the injection pump and the water molecule is still a water molecule. Even with the lower fuel pressure and not as tight clearances, it will cause damage. Stanadyne’s position - injection pump returned showing water damage warranty denied. We, however, had customers to take care of so add a second water separator because we can’t control fuel.

 

[ultrarunner]

A casual glance at West Marine shows filters from $60 to over a $1,000

Sites-WestMarine-Site

West Marine

www.westmarine.com

2 and 10 micron are popular...

 

[Bentrim]

About two years ago I picked up a MF 245 that needed work. When I was reassembling it I noticed the was only one CAV fuel filter on it. Having worked on diesels and farm machinery I wasn't happy with just that one filter. Did some research and found some high priced and some not so badly priced filter. Finally decided on Clarcor Fuel Manager. Since I hate plastic I ordered a FM100. Found it easy to mount and using brake lines found it easy to plumb in the system. Installed it so fuel free flows from the tank to the Fuel Manager, then to the lift pump, through the CAV filter then to the pump.
Why did I decide on the Fuel Manager? 1. Price. 2. Size. 3. Variety of filter sizes available. 4. Options available-Heater, primer pump, water sensor, electric pump etc. 5. Brand recognition.

CLARCOR's FM1, FM10, FM100 & FM1000 Filters | M&D

"Fuel Manager diesel fuel filter/water separator systems are used globally in a wide variety of diesel engine powered applications..." | M&D

blog.mddistributorsstore.com

https://www.parker.com/Literature/Racor/RSL/RSL0349_BRO_FuelManager_Rev-.pdf?hootPostID=70135e086c5f9c3f8a31b9f24fc9a1e4

https://ph.parker.com/us/en/fuel-manager-elements

https://www.westernfilters.net.au/content/pdfs/Fuel_Manager_User_Guide.pdf

 

[5030]

A casual glance at West Marine shows filters from $60 to over a $1,000

Sites-WestMarine-Site

West Marine

www.westmarine.com

2 and 10 micron are popular...

www.racorstore.com

 

[5030]

About two years ago I picked up a MF 245 that needed work. When I was reassembling it I noticed the was only one CAV fuel filter on it. Having worked on diesels and farm machinery I wasn't happy with just that one filter. Did some research and found some high priced and some not so badly priced filter. Finally decided on Clarcor Fuel Manager. Since I hate plastic I ordered a FM100. Found it easy to mount and using brake lines found it easy to plumb in the system. Installed it so fuel free flows from the tank to the Fuel Manager, then to the lift pump, through the CAV filter then to the pump.
Why did I decide on the Fuel Manager? 1. Price. 2. Size. 3. Variety of filter sizes available. 4. Options available-Heater, primer pump, water sensor, electric pump etc. 5. Brand recognition.

CLARCOR's FM1, FM10, FM100 & FM1000 Filters | M&D

"Fuel Manager diesel fuel filter/water separator systems are used globally in a wide variety of diesel engine powered applications..." | M&D

blog.mddistributorsstore.com

https://www.parker.com/Literature/Racor/RSL/RSL0349_BRO_FuelManager_Rev-.pdf?hootPostID=70135e086c5f9c3f8a31b9f24fc9a1e4

https://ph.parker.com/us/en/fuel-manager-elements

https://www.westernfilters.net.au/content/pdfs/Fuel_Manager_User_Guide.pdf

About the same cost as the Racor units from what I see.