Kubota M59

[bdog]

Looking at buying one. It is used with less than 50hrs. I know the current owner and has has seen very light use. Still has paint on buckets. Not sure what year it is probably 3-4 years old.

Questions are how do these machines hold up?

How do they stack up size wise/capability wise to what most contractors use?

Primarily I want the machine for my own projects but it is small enough to fit on my pickup and trailer (~9,000lb) so I was thinking I maybe could do some contracting with it from time to time. Just wondering if the average person who needs to hire a backhoe would think this machine was adequate or if it was too small.

I have a small business and no absolute need for the extra income but I work around one week on one week off and was thinking maybe I could pass the time on my time off doing some backhoe work. I already am a contractor of sorts and run some heavy equipment, have insurance, etc.

I figure regular backhoes charge out work around $50/hr. If I could just do a couple days of work per month I could pretty much pay for the machine in a few years. If not oh well. I am not depending on it or anything just trying to justify the purchase more than anything as I am kind of at a tipping point as to whether buying or just renting for my projects makes more sense.

 

[Sysop]

If the insurance covers ya, it would be fine for many jobs.

Customers a.k.a. the average person who hires a job to be generally has no idea what to expect is going to come rolling up on the day of the job, nor do they care. It is up to you to know the capabilities of you and your machine when you go to research and quote the job. If you go to quote a job too large for your machine, you can either pass, or calculate in a rental fee for a larger machine. Same as if the job is too tight quartered for a machine as large as the M59, you can either pass, or calculate in rental of a mini-ex or borrow someone's BX or some other small machine.

The customer sees a job that needs done and may have some ideas of how to accomplish it. Anyone can call the rental lot and have the equipment delivered, but they called a real live operator (you) in because they don't know for sure. That will be your job, picking the tool for the task and having the confidence in operation. That M59 would perform many wonderful tasks and earn a lot of greenbacks with a skilled operator.

Once you have a machine and are going out in your area to quote this type of work, it will not take long to identify what type of machine would make a great second addition, nor take long to earn the money to buy it with that M59. That M59 would be a well rounded first machine to start a small side business with. The biggest cost, concern, and threat to such an endeavor is typically the insurance.

 

[bdog]

Thanks for the reply. Pretty sure my insurance would cover it. We don't do excavation per se but have skid steers, do some hole drilling, etc.

I know many customers don't know or care but I just didn't want to get laughed at when someone hired a backhoe and I showed up with the M59. It is a capable machine but it is quite a bit smaller than full size cat or deere machines you commonly see on jobsites. It is definitely larger than some of the tiny ones you see but still is not a full blown machine.

Years ago I used to do some contract shredding and it was by the acre or job. They didn't care if I used a 20' batwing or scissors but when people are paying you by the hour they tend to get funny about the machine you are using.

 

[bdog]

Thanks for the reply. Pretty sure my insurance would cover it. We don't do excavation per se but have skid steers, do some hole drilling, etc.

I know many customers don't know or care but I just didn't want to get laughed at when someone hired a backhoe and I showed up with the M59. It is a capable machine but it is quite a bit smaller than full size cat or deere machines you commonly see on jobsites. It is definitely larger than some of the tiny ones you see but still is not a full blown machine.

Years ago I used to do some contract shredding and it was by the acre or job. They didn't care if I used a 20' batwing or scissors but when people are paying you by the hour they tend to get funny about the machine you are using.

 

[Sysop]

I think they will at most look at the bucket size and your ability to operate it smoothly and efficiently. As long as those are suited to the job, you're set. If you show up with a 24" bucket to dig a trench that only needs to be 12" or vice-versa, or are spending all your time trying to control the "herky-jerkys" of an inexperienced operator, you're going to make an enemy out of someone that would have otherwise been a valued customer. I don't see anything to be concerned about as it is all easily mitigated by inspecting and choosing your jobs based on the tools you have or can acquire within a reasonable cost and can operate efficiently. Biggest hurdle is to not take on more than you can handle.

 

[TSO]

FYI, backhoe operators charge more like $100-125/hr around here. Regarding the machine, I think it's a great choice! If it came with a cab option, I would probably try to find a way to afford it. Regarding the insurance, not sure what yours covers, just make sure it covers excavating (if you plan to do it) ... My insurance carrier asks me every couple months if I do excavating. I don't, but they charge more to insure excavating so they keep up with their audits.

That's a great machine tho...

 

[RDrancher]

FYI, backhoe operators charge more like $100-125/hr around here. Regarding the machine, I think it's a great choice! If it came with a cab option, I would probably try to find a way to afford it. Regarding the insurance, not sure what yours covers, just make sure it covers excavating (if you plan to do it) ... My insurance carrier asks me every couple months if I do excavating. I don't, but they charge more to insure excavating so they keep up with their audits.

That's a great machine tho...

I agree...that $50 an hour thing sounds more like 1980's pricing. As TSO mentioned, make sure your covered under your insurance. Even most excavation policies have a "depth of dig" clause in there, or something like it.

 

[bdog]

I will admit that I am not totally up on backhoe pricing but I do contract out bulldozers on a fairly regular basis. Last one I hired was a D6T which was only a year or two old and is a 300k machine. We paid $135 an hour for it. It is a huge machine that shows up on a oversized load semi, etc and figured if it can be had for $135hr a 50k kubota that you can haul around with a pickup really can't be much more than $50 but I know that is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[LD1]

Agree with others that $50/hr is too low. Thats what I shoot for with my kubota doing bushhogging or light grading/FEL work.

If you want the machine for personal reasons thats fine. But if one of the big deciding factors is working for hire, get ahold of the insurance company first. Lots more liability with digging in the ground vs just playing on top of the ground. Risk of hitting underground utilities. Not sure how things are where you are, but around here when we call for things to be marked, they dont normally mark the homeowners stuff. IE: if the owner has electric burried to a shop, or to their house...not marked. Water isnt marked from the tap to the house. Septic systems, well water, sprinkler systems, landscape lighting, etc. Not marked and if you damage, you fix.

As to the rest of the questions, what do you plan on doing to make money? Installing utilities and tile? Digging footers? Septic systems (which I think requires a license), grading and leveling areas? Digging basements or crawl spaces?

Hard to answer if it is the right machine without knowing how you want to put it to use.

And the only time I like a 12" bucket is utilities. For doing tile or anything else, I like 18" or 24" buckets. There is no elbow room to work down in the trench if needed with a 12" bucket. And if the backhoe has the power, a 24" bucket will dig just as fast as a 12" bucket.

 

[bdog]

Primary reason for purchase would be for personal use. I have a lot of little things I could use it for. What is tripping me up is I am guessing I could rent one for $500 a day or less. To make the math simple I could rent for 100 days for what he machine costs. I am not even sure I have 100 days of stuff to do. Then again a machine is so much handier if it is sitting there and available when ever you need it vs scheduling a rental. Bottom line is I can afford the machine and just go pay cash for it but I am thinking it would be good if it it could earn its keep so to speak.

 

[TSO]

I will admit that I am not totally up on backhoe pricing but I do contract out bulldozers on a fairly regular basis. Last one I hired was a D6T which was only a year or two old and is a 300k machine. We paid $135 an hour for it. It is a huge machine that shows up on a oversized load semi, etc and figured if it can be had for $135hr a 50k kubota that you can haul around with a pickup really can't be much more than $50 but I know that is comparing apples and oranges.

That $135/hr price is for YOU to use it ... You still have to factor the operators costs too. Maybe you're different than the rest of us, but I certainly don't want to work for free.

 

[RDrancher]

I will admit that I am not totally up on backhoe pricing but I do contract out bulldozers on a fairly regular basis. Last one I hired was a D6T which was only a year or two old and is a 300k machine. We paid $135 an hour for it. It is a huge machine that shows up on a oversized load semi, etc and figured if it can be had for $135hr a 50k kubota that you can haul around with a pickup really can't be much more than $50 but I know that is comparing apples and oranges.

I agree that it's apples to oranges. A dozer is pretty limited in what it can do, although what it can do it can do a lot of. A backhoe can dig a nice trench and then use the bucket to fill it up, spread some dirt without doing damage to surrounding landscaping, drive over a curb and hardscape for access, plus all of the other attachments that fit on the quick attach. As for pricing, I'll give this for an example. I don't do much hourly work, but you can expect a CTL to go at $90-$100 per hour (minimum) plus move-on charges since the truck and trailer don't work for free either. Compare that to a CAT 953 track loader which is three times the weight and can move a lot more dirt per hour. Around here a 953 gets about $110 per hour. It doesn't seem right, but it's the versatility and compactness of the CTL that makes it worth the money.

 

[bdog]

That $135/hr price is for YOU to use it ... You still have to factor the operators costs too. Maybe you're different than the rest of us, but I certainly don't want to work for free.

No it wasn't that was with operator. I have never seen anyone rent a dozer by the hour and hand you the keys. They had the haul truck, fuel trailer, mechanic on call, etc

 

[LD1]

Primary reason for purchase would be for personal use. I have a lot of little things I could use it for. What is tripping me up is I am guessing I could rent one for $500 a day or less. To make the math simple I could rent for 100 days for what he machine costs. I am not even sure I have 100 days of stuff to do. Then again a machine is so much handier if it is sitting there and available when ever you need it vs scheduling a rental. Bottom line is I can afford the machine and just go pay cash for it but I am thinking it would be good if it it could earn its keep so to speak.

You could rent a piece of equipment for 100 days, be out of pocket 50k, and have nothing to show for it.

Or you can be out 50k (+ a little maintenance, grease, and oil changes), and at the end of it, you still have a machine, with only 800hrs more on the clock, that can probably be re-sold for most of what you paid for it if you choose to.

I hate renting equipment unless its something that dont get used much at all. Like concrete tools (power screed and power trowel), or a boom lift once in a blue moon, or a dozer that has high maintenance cost and limited uses.

But if you can keep a backhoe busy for at least a few hundred hours (and once you have one, the project list grows), then just buy one if you can afford it. :2cents:

 

[bdog]

I agree that it's apples to oranges. A dozer is pretty limited in what it can do, although what it can do it can do a lot of. A backhoe can dig a nice trench and then use the bucket to fill it up, spread some dirt without doing damage to surrounding landscaping, drive over a curb and hardscape for access, plus all of the other attachments that fit on the quick attach. As for pricing, I'll give this for an example. I don't do much hourly work, but you can expect a CTL to go at $90-$100 per hour (minimum) plus move-on charges since the truck and trailer don't work for free either. Compare that to a CAT 953 track loader which is three times the weight and can move a lot more dirt per hour. Around here a 953 gets about $110 per hour. It doesn't seem right, but it's the versatility and compactness of the CTL that makes it worth the money.

I am not doubting what you are saying but it makes one wonder why people ever buy this larger machinery. If one had 300k to invest for example they could either buy one D6T and charge 135/hr or they could buy six M59s for the same money and not even need 18 wheelers to haul them around and they could charge a collective $600-750/hr. I am sure they are a lot cheaper to maintain too.

 

[bdog]

You could rent a piece of equipment for 100 days, be out of pocket 50k, and have nothing to show for it.

Or you can be out 50k (+ a little maintenance, grease, and oil changes), and at the end of it, you still have a machine, with only 800hrs more on the clock, that can probably be re-sold for most of what you paid for it if you choose to.

I hate renting equipment unless its something that dont get used much at all. Like concrete tools (power screed and power trowel), or a boom lift once in a blue moon, or a dozer that has high maintenance cost and limited uses.

But if you can keep a backhoe busy for at least a few hundred hours (and once you have one, the project list grows), then just buy one if you can afford it. :2cents:

Good points. You sure know how to make one spend their money hahaha.

I guess the only other thing to factor in is the opportunity cost of having the money tied up in the machine vs something else.

My thoughts for the machine on contracting it out would be stuff like planting trees, digging up irrigation systems to fix leaks on center pivots for farmers, maybe digging some basements as they are building houses around here like crazy, digging holes for tornado shelters, possibly holes for swimming pools I have a friend with a backhoe that does some of that now.

 

[LD1]

I think digging basements you would want a larger machine with a bit more depth/reach and the ability to swing a bigger bucket with authority. But the other things are a good match. Doing irrigation and field tile repairs, utilities and perimeter drains and downspout drains for new-builds, culvert installs, foundations for garages, etc. All well suited to that sized machine. But I wouldnt be bidding on the basements without a larger machine and/or larger excavator.

 

[RDrancher]

I am not doubting what you are saying but it makes one wonder why people ever buy this larger machinery. If one had 300k to invest for example they could either buy one D6T and charge 135/hr or they could buy six M59s for the same money and not even need 18 wheelers to haul them around and they could charge a collective $600-750/hr. I am sure they are a lot cheaper to maintain too.

It's mainly the size of the jobs that dictate the size of the equipment. Imagine I show up with my CTL and the other guys shows up with a D6 to perform the same job. What takes him a day would probably take me more than a week..probably longer. You'd laugh me right off your property if I was charging hourly. Now imagine the D6 showing up on a job that needs some dirt work, some heavy mowing, brush removal, and trees stacked to burn on the other side of a concrete driveway. Both examples and the tasks the machines are able to perform justify the hourly price of each. The other difference is the service life of the machine. There's plenty of big iron out there still being used every day with over 20,000 hrs on the clock. Any piece of compact equipment (no matter how well it's maintained) is pretty much toast for everyday work well before the 5,000 hour mark. Compact equipment also costs a lot to maintain (comparatively). Fragile little buggers they are.

Back to the M59. It's the strongest construction grade modern TLB in existence with a removable backhoe, period. You won't find any other machine that compares. I'd love to have one.

Edited to add: In my opinion, you can easily charge $75 or more an hour for an M59. I don't work hourly very often, but figuring pricing for my tractor related jobs I charge more than that per day and I don't have a backhoe.

 

[TSO]

Come to think of it ... If you really only want $50/hr for you and your machine (if you're a decent operator), come to Michigan and I'll put you on the payroll for the summer.

 

[bdog]

You guys are making it very tempting. You should be salesmen.

I would love to go to Michigan but I am pretty much stuck here with my full time gig. It is not an exact schedule but I often work one week on and one week off. If I could just dink around and do a couple of days of backhoe work on my week off that would be pretty cool.

I did go to Michigan once several years ago for work. If I recall it took three days to drive there, we worked three days, and then spent three days driving home. It was in January and it was the coldest this Texas boy has every been in his life.