Kubota M9960 vs Case Farmall 105U - need some opinions on a bad purchase

[AirPower]

Here's the story. I bought a 2013 Kubota M9960 with 870 hours (4x4, open station, 12x12 with wet clutch, grapple installed) for $32K plus shipping. Upon receipt I hooked it up to a batwing and it was unable to run it. I purchased out of state, so the out of state dealer arranged for it to be looked at. Local dealer checked it out and 3 out of 4 injectors failed but the engine compression checked at factory specs. The selling dealer decided to replace all 4 injectors, total cost came out to about $5,300. They initially said they would take care of it, but then when they received the bill the salesman said the cost was so high that he was going to lose money out of pocket and that they needed us to cover part so it would be a break even for them (IE- $2,300). The other option was he would refund the money and ship the tractor back.

The other tractor I was looking at was 2012 Case Farmall 105U with 1,650 hours on it. As it turns out, this tractor is still available, it's 4x4, 12x12 (appears to be a dry clutch), open station, loader with out grapple, and looks pretty clean. They let me call the prior owner, he told me he sold it to them for $26K, they said they put $2,500 of work into it for minor things, and they have it listed for $35,500. The 105U is quite a bit larger than the M9960, and as far as I can tell it does not have a DPF filter and probably uses the pre-emissions injectors (which from my limited knowledge they seem to be a little bit more tolerant to something in the diesel).

If we were to pay the difference for the Kubota, that puts the total cost around $34,300, or if we pivot to the 105U the total cost (adding a grapple) would end up around $37K. It's possible I might be able to convince them to throw in the 3rd function install at the $35,500 price, if so it would be $1,200 more (not counting buying a grapple bucket) for the 105U and it has about twice the hours.

Would you all go the Kubota route now that it has been thoroughly checked over or the Case route? I like the idea of the bigger body tractor, but the main thing I'm after is the HP to pull the batwing and the 4x4 for the slopes and loader work.

 

[Rustyiron]

Re: Kubota M9960 vs Case Farmall 105U

That $5300 (cost?) for 4 injectors sounds like a retail "book" price. Now I'm not sure what all the emissions BS does to injector prices, but I smell a rat and would think that at the additional amount he wants out of you IS his cost.

 

[AirPower]

Re: Kubota M9960 vs Case Farmall 105U

It's one Kubota dealer charging another for work, although the invoice is made out to us. The invoice from the dealer that did the work shows the injectors running $3,455 ($863 each), the rest is misc parts/testing, and $1,300 in labor.

I agree, I don't think we should be responsible for it, they should have put a load on the tractor before buying it to find out it was that messed up. The problem is, that tractor isn't being released until THEY pay it, and they're reluctant to pay it unless we are willing to pay a portion of it.

The Kubota seemed to be pretty well priced, in otherwise good shape and maybe a little under the market. If we pay the $2,300 now it's around where the rest of the market was. maybe slightly below. So, assuming my only two options are we pay it and keep the tractor, or we don't pay it, we are refunded the purchase price, and the tractor is shipped back to the original dealer... do you think we're better off paying it and keeping it (it has been checked over thoroughly) or paying a little more overall for the larger 105U with double the hours but no DPF/emissions? I've always read that Kubota's are super reliable (I know everyone has a different experience), so I'm waffling between this tractor that has been closely inspected now and another tractor coming from another dealer that is a global model made in Italy.

 

[Rustyiron]

It's sort of a moving target eh? Is this IH at a dealership? If not, how close to one for you?
One thing that I like about kubota is that the whole machine is kubota, and it kinda seems like you're comfortable with it and how throughly it's been checked out.
I wonder if your original kubota dealer can wiggle you into kubota's insurance plan? Perhaps you can agree to some other creative solution. (Parts, traded in implement, tires, weights etc. get creative)

 

[Industrial Toys]

Are injectors really that expensive?. Just curious if Kumar brothers carry the injectors? VERY, very nice people to do business with.

 

[AirPower]

I'm in Texas, the Case is in Kentucky (105HP open station in Kentucky seems a little odd), and the Kubota I bought was in Arkansas. Both the local IH dealer and Kubota dealer are the same distance from the ranch.

I am fairly comfortable with how thoroughly it has been checked out, the local dealer is pretty solid and they've gone over it with a fine toothed comb (at least over the engine). I know it comes down largely to personal preference, and maybe the Case is just as good as the Kubota, I just tend to feel like Kubota is pretty well put together.

The reason I like the IH is because it's a much heavier/larger framed tractor. I didn't realize how small the Kubota frame was until it arrived, looked larger in the pictures and I couldn't find one local to look at.

I will check and see if there are any other creative solutions, but I did talk to him tonight and he feels like the tractor was sold at such a low price that he can resell it with the added $5K and turn a profit, so he has no problem taking it back.

 

[AirPower]

Are injectors really that expensive?. Just curious if Kumar brothers carry the injectors? VERY, very nice people to do business with.

I looked briefly online, and for this engine they appear to run around $700-$800 each. The injectors for the case are a little bit less from what I've seen, around $550 after the core return.

 

[ovrszd]

I pull a 15' batwing with my M9540, no problem.

CIH is a mechanical clutch, no shuttle? Deal breaker for me.

 

[AirPower]

I pull a 15' batwing with my M9540, no problem.

CIH is a mechanical clutch, no shuttle? Deal breaker for me.

The CIH is a power shuttle, with a left handed reverser. Tractordata says it's a dry clutch, but the dealer is saying it's a wet clutch, so waiting for clarity on that. If it's a dry clutch I'm not going that route.

 

[Rustyiron]

If he takes it back, does that include you shipping? This may add to your $$$ consideration overall.

 

[LouNY]

The Farmall 105U was available with several different transmission options,
dry clutch mechanical shuttle,
wet clutch hydraulic shuttle,
as well as a couple of partial power shifts.

Even a dry clutch shuttle is not a big deal they can have a long life if operated properly.

The Farmall is more tractor any way you look at it.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The Farmall 105U was available with several different transmission options,
dry clutch mechanical shuttle,
wet clutch hydraulic shuttle,
as well as a couple of partial power shifts.

Even a dry clutch shuttle is not a big deal they can have a long life if operated properly.

The Farmall is more tractor any way you look at it.

A big plus 1

SR

 

[AirPower]

He will pay to ship it back, but I lose the original shipping that I paid for.

It actually looks like I could outright sell the Kubota for about $4K more than I paid for it, so I might consider selling it locally and the net gain will more than cover the additional cost of the Case.

 

[AirPower]

The 105U I'm looking at is said to be a 12x12 with a power shuttle. One person at the dealer told me it was wet, the other said dry, tractor data says it could be either.... having a hard time determining which it is.

The Kubota has 4 new injectors, a compression checked engine, and 800 hours, the 105U has about 1,600 hours and no check on injectors or compression. If it were you, would you opt for the "more tractor" (which is clearly is) over the Kubota?

 

[LouNY]

I would go for the larger frame tractor,
1600 hours is nothing on a working tractor.
It would be a piece of cake to determine which transmission is in the tractor,
with it running at low idle and warmed up,
gently pull or push the forward/reverse lever even with any of the transmissions in neutral without touching the foot pedal if it grinds a bit it's a dry clutch, if it just slides right into gear and the directional arrow lights up it's a power shuttle.

If much of it's work is mowing the shuttle type should be a minor issue, many of those tractors have several thousand hours of shuttle work even when equipped with the dry clutch.

 

[AirPower]

I would go for the larger frame tractor,
1600 hours is nothing on a working tractor.
It would be a piece of cake to determine which transmission is in the tractor,
with it running at low idle and warmed up,
gently pull or push the forward/reverse lever even with any of the transmissions in neutral without touching the foot pedal if it grinds a bit it's a dry clutch, if it just slides right into gear and the directional arrow lights up it's a power shuttle.

If much of it's work is mowing the shuttle type should be a minor issue, many of those tractors have several thousand hours of shuttle work even when equipped with the dry clutch.

Unfortunately the 105U is about 800 miles away, so I can't operate it. I asked the dealer if they put it on a dyno or checked engine compression/injectors but they haven't.

We have always had dry clutch tractors, the guys we have running them tend to leave their foot on the clutch from time to time which I have yet to break them of. I am used to dry clutches so it's not a problem for me. I actually kind of prefer dry clutches when hooking up implements, I tried to back up to the batwing with the Kubota and slammed into the damned thing because I guess it is either engaged or disengaged, so I was about an inch off and tried to back up a little more only to have it nearly snap the jack off the mower. Probably just takes some getting used to.

I really like the size of the Case, so maybe I just get the Kubota back and sell it for a profit (with the 4 new injectors, 800 hours, 4x4/12x12/wet clutch, and grapple I bet I can get close to $40K for it.

 

[Farmer495]

The 105U I'm looking at is said to be a 12x12 with a power shuttle. One person at the dealer told me it was wet, the other said dry, tractor data says it could be either.... having a hard time determining which it is.

The Kubota has 4 new injectors, a compression checked engine, and 800 hours, the 105U has about 1,600 hours and no check on injectors or compression. If it were you, would you opt for the "more tractor" (which is clearly is) over the Kubota?

Powershuttle has the shifter on the column, manual dry clutch shuttle has a stick coming up on left side of the seat.

The 105U is a Fiat tractor. I don't think there is anything really wrong with them, I've run them in blue paint as New Holland 35 & TL series with the dry clutch shuttle and they worked fine. Never ran a power shuttle one in that series.

 

[ovrszd]

The CIH is a power shuttle, with a left handed reverser. Tractordata says it's a dry clutch, but the dealer is saying it's a wet clutch, so waiting for clarity on that. If it's a dry clutch I'm not going that route.

If it's a power shuttle, it's oil clutch. No other way to go it that I know of.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Well for me, I'd make the selling dealer eat the Kubota.

His problem, he deals with it. All the cost and inconvenience is "on him".

And I'd push him pretty hard for your shipping back. Not your problem he sold you a bad tractor, and likely represented it as good.

This is regardless on if you go with the Case or not.