Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one

   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #1  

HODAK

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2005
Messages
429
Location
NE Pennsylvania
Tractor
CK30HST
Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

I'm in the market to replace my 77 Ford 1600 with FEL with a new FWD model and have been looking at the New Holland, Kubota, and recently the Kioti. 25 - 30 hp range with FEL. I was going to go with the blue, but the others look mighty appealing with similar specs. Anybody out there got any advice? I can't be the only one with this problem(?). Wife says go get one already. So far I was quoted a price of 19,900 for the L3130HST with LA723 loader. I was offered 2000 - 3000 for a trade, possibly more. The Ford is in excellent condition, always garaged, and has 542 hrs. Any thoughts? Thanks /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #2  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

With the 723 loader, nothing in the 30hp class can even touch the specs of the L3130 for loader performance, it also has more HP at the PTO than either the CK30 or TC29. The price is not great, but not horrible either. I'm not sure where you are located, but pricing on tractors seems to be very regional. I've seen L3130's with gear transmissions for under $15.9K recently with a lighter duty loader, the HST is going to bump that up about a grand to roughly $17K; the 723 loader is the best available and also ups the price so your price is decent, but you might be able to do better (again, that really depends on region). The CK30 pricing I've seen lately tells me that it will likely beat the L3130's price, but again has lower loader specs and less PTO hp. The machines are virtually the same size/weight. The TC29 is fair comparion, but I think the TC33 is a better choice because of the added PTO hp it provides. I really like the erogonmics of the TC-DA machines and some of their features and how they fit. Of all of them, I'd pony up the cash for the L3130 as I think it is the best in class. The TC33DA would be a very very close 2nd place in my book, it may be the most expensive. CK30 coming in 3rd place followed closely by the TC29 in 4th.

If the NH you are considering is the TC30, then in my book that would fall to a distant 5th place, it is a nice basic tractor but I don't think it can stand up to the rest of the group.

JMHO. Good luck on your choice, any way you go it will be a good machine.
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #3  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

I agree with Bob on his tractor rankings, but only if you don't take price into account. In my area, I couldn't get the TC30, which was last on his list for within $2,000 of what I bought my CK30. The TC33 and the Kubota L3130 where both more than $4,000 more in my area. If I was to alter that list and add pricing (as it stands in my area) to the equation, the Kioti CK30 jumped to 1st by a large margin, followed by the Kubota, than the TC33. I personally wouldn't even consider the TC29, in my area the price difference between it and the TC33 was so small, it made no sense not to jump to the 33. Good luck in your search, and obviously if pricing is different in your area, any of those 3 could head your list.
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #4  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

First off - Welcome to TBN! You've found a great community.

I would like to expand upon Bob's comparison of the CK30 and the L3130.
<font color="blue"> The CK30 pricing I've seen lately tells me that it will likely beat the L3130's price, but again has lower loader specs and less PTO hp. The machines are virtually the same size/weight. </font>

The machines are similar in overall length, similar in weight, with the L3130 tipping the scales more. The L3130 width is roughly 1/2 foot wider and the wheelbase on the L3130 is roughly 1/2 foot longer than the CK30. To compare a similar wheelbase (71.1") of the L3130, with Kioti you would be looking at the DK45 (71.6").

The moral of my post is to look at all the specifications, zero in on the specifications that are most important for the jobs that you are performing and be sure to sit in the seats of all the candidates.

Last but not least your asking about multiple brands in a brand specific forum. You would be better served in the general buying/pricing forum. Maybe a moderator would be so kind to relocate this thread to the general buying/pricing forum for expanded exposure.

Good luck in your search.... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Don
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #5  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

Hello Hodak, I too looked at the tractors your looking at extensively. Ive been researching them for over a year. The best prices on the NH tc33 hst found was 19200. The best price for the Kubota L3130 hst found was 19200 as well with the 513 loader, add 700 for the 723 loader, which matches the price you have.. Im going this weekend to look at a kioti ck 30. The dealer there also sells the ck30s with the woods 1012 quick detach loader for 300 dollars more then with the standard k130 loader. This loader is rated at just under 1400lbs and the dealer tells me it will lift more, probably between 1500 and 1600 lbs due to the kiotis pump size. From what ive read this tractor is very similar in all aspects to the other brands youve mentioned except the 3 point lift capacity, the L3130 is about 800lbs higher then the kiotis.. But with that said, i can get the kioti for 16200. Thats 3000 dollars cheaper then the kubota or New Holland... Due a search in this forum under all three brands mentioned, but i will say one thing, ive yet to hear one complaint on the ck30, i cant say that for the TC33 or the L3130, go and find out for yourself...Thats why im going to see this tractor for myself.. If i like it, My search may be over.... Matt
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #6  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

<font color="red"> the dealer tells me it will lift more, probably between 1500 and 1600 lbs due to the kiotis pump size. </font>

Be really careful there, it is my understanding that pump capacity as measured in flow rate does not increase lift strength, but it does affect the lift speed (all else being equal). I believe the cylinder size is what determins the lift capacity. Maybe one of the TBN hydraulic experts can jump in and help???




Don is correct that the L3130 is slightly larger than the CK30, depending on how it is spec'd out, it is roughly a couple hundred pounds heavier, it is less than 6" longer, and it is about 6" wider. The wheelbase is considerably longer. In theory, it should offer a smoother ride, it should be much more stable on side slopes than any of the other brands being considered, it should, because of its wheelbase, carry more weight behind the front axle than the Kioti or the NH units, and therefore it should be far better balanced and require less ballast. It has more horsepower on the engine and the PTO. Should it cost more? Yup, but you get more. Is it worth the extra money, that is a question that must be answered by the buyer and the jobs that need to be done.

As for complaints about the L3130 and the CK30, the only one I've ever really seen about either is really a non-issue. Both are the same complaint, and both are related to HST models where only a few users feel that they are underpowered when going up hills. I don't recall any other real complaints about either machine, but given that there are lots more L3130's in consumers hands, it is logical that there would be more complaints.

On a budget issue, the CK30 is likely the lowest price. If price is the driving factor, it should be the choice.

On the capacity issue, the L3130 is the beast of the group. If capacity to do work is the factor, it would likely be the choice.

The reality both are darn good machines.
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #7  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

xxx GHP Imp.Pump Lft24"B/3pt OAlenth Width Wbase wt

L3130 32.1 8.3GPM 2650lbs 124.2" 59.8" 71.1" 3305lb
CK30 30 12.7GPM 1764lbs 122.2" 54.6" 66.1" 3055lb
TC33 33 7.6GPM 1635lbs 106.2" 54.3" 63" 2474lb

Stats of your 3 tractors in regards to your comparison. The Kioti stacks up pretty well in comparison considering the Kubota and New Holland are not truly 30hp tractors. As they are 32.1 and 33hp respectively. All 3 are very good machines, Each tractor has its strong points, from stabilty to platform loader view and lift capacities, weight etc... But that all said, its up to the person to decide whats best for his needs. From my research, being i wanted a quick detach loader , The Ck30 came in at 16,200, The L3130 and TC33 would both price over 20,000 with the quick detach loaders. Dollar for dollar is easily seen why the Kioti deserves a close look. IMHO Matt
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #8  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

I've have owned both , Kubota's and now a Kioti . Both are nice tractors .You get what you pay for . For my money , their is no comparsion . Kioti wins, hands down .
Big Al
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #9  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

One clarification on the hydraulic pump capacities. The three tractors each have two hydraulic pumps.

Total GPM pump capacities:

Kubota L3130 = 13.2
Kioti CK30 = 12.7
New Holland TC33 = 12.7

Don
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #10  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

Whew! I don't think I'd touch this one with a 10 foot pole. Too many tempers and egos get going. All I'll say is that I looked at all of the ones you listed and also the JD models. I ended up buying the Kubota, and it wasn't just because I liked the name. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #11  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

Hello, the capacities used were for the implement pump based on the charts at compact tractor reviews websight. One can go there and click on the home page where theres a comparison of 30Hp tractors in the link in the lower right corner. The Kubota does have 13. 2 total, and lists 8.3 for the implements and 4.9 gpm for power steering. The TC33 uses 7.6 for implements and 5.1 for power steering. The Kioti only listed 1 pump ,12.7gpm, they also only listed one pump on their homepage, perhaps a ck30 owner can explain if there are 2 pumps or 1. Also the hst comparisons on PTO horsepower listed the TC33 at 26.9hp the L3130 at 24hp and the ck30 at 23.5 hp. Matt
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #12  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

I utilize information from each brands website as well as the each brands printed material. I try to stick with first hand information.

In Kioti's printed material the CK25/30 is listed as having 'tandem' pumps with a maximum flow rate of 12.7 GPM. I have not come across a breakdown of the two pumps individual flow capacity.

Don
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #13  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

Don, you and I often disagree on things but I follow the specs the way you do, from the source.

I think the easy way to learn to do that is to go to the various tractor websites, some of the comparisions they give about their competitor don't seem to match up properly. I've seen some manufacturers "compare" thier tractor to models that were discontinued 2 or 3 years prior.

I also think that things like hydraulic flow don't tell the whole story. Just because one brand has more flow does not mean that brand can lift more. Hydraulic flow controls several things on the tractor, how the pumps are divided makes some difference that should be considered. However, when debating the difference between 12.7 and 13.2 I think they are, in the REAL WORLD, about the same to most of us users. I certainly would rather choose a tractor based on comfort and ergonomics rather than hydraulic flow.

Let's also be honest, it is difficult to make apples to apples comparisions because most of these machines don't really line up.

The TC33 and the L3130 are both higher HP than any of the others.
The TC29 and the CK30 actually do match up pretty well in relative size, features, capacities.
The (not mentioned in this particular thread) B2910 is also 30hp, but is a totally different animal is so many ways that it is not comparable.
The TC30 is not even in the ball game for a dozen reasons, but is the same HP.

So how, or better yet, why do we compare them? And all of us folks on TBN constantly compare them when we shop.

Honest almost Apples to Apples would be the CK30 & TC29. I think the TC29 probably loses that battle in most cases, especially when cost is factored in.

Dishonest Apples to Oranges would be the CK30 to L3130. No real comparison in capacity. Size & weight are very close, wheelbase is longer on the 3130. The L3130 wins that battle most of the time, despite the added cost due to its capacity and power.

Dishonest Apples to Oranges would be the CK30 to TC33. If PTO hp is a factor, there is no contest. Otherwise there is no reason for the added 3hp and the $$$ premium. CK30 wins for value, TC33 wins if PTO hp is needed.

Dishonest Apples to Oranges would be the B2910 to CK30. An ultra-light versus a tank. Two totally different machines that are designed for different work. Both share one commonality, they have 30hp engines. Who wins? Not even fair to say because it would be totally task dependant as to what machine to buy.

Dishonest Apples to Oranges woudl be the CK30 to the TC30. TC30, fine old workhorse, but it is so far below the CK30 in features that the winner is obvious.
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

Thanks for all the input. My present tractor, (the Ford 1600) is rated at 23HP PTO and I wanted to stick with this or slightly more. I realize the Kubota is obviously more tractor and probably more than I need. Really I'm just looking for something about the same size as what I have, only updated with power steering, FWD, and easier to get on and off. I have to consider my wife. I may look at the CK30HST today if the dealer has one. This appears to be the front runner after reading some of the comments on this forum. Great place for info, thanks to all. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #15  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

Bob, in your opinion, what type of work are the B2910 and the CK 30 designed for?
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #16  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

<font color="blue">
Bob, in your opinion, what type of work are the B2910 and the CK 30 designed for? </font>

Divide tasks into 2 types: Constructing & Maintaining
Constructing TYPE tasks: digging ditches, logging, box blading, grader blading.
Maintaining TYPE tasks: mowing, spreading mulch, snow blowing, tilling a garden

Just my opinion, but an ultra light tractor like the B2910 is a great little estate tractor for maintaining the grounds. It is very small for the 30hp class of machines, and the lightest weight machine I know of (about 1/2 the weight of some of the heavy machines). Being smaller and lighter makes it a great lawn mower an with a 72" MMM it is a very hard tractor to beat at mowing, especially since its size lets it get into places that most other 30hp tractors only dream of fitting into. I feel the B2910 is great for "maintaining" and marginal at "constructing" the grounds.

Again, just my opinion, but the heavyweight CK30 would excel at tasks requiring the FEL or any ground engaging work like box blading, grader blading, etc. The 130 loader is far superior to the B2910's 402 in both capacity and visibility. The added weight gives it traction that the B2910 simply cannot match so blade work would be far more efficient wth the CK30. I feel the CK30 is great for "constructing" and marginal for "maintaining" the grounds.


Now all that said, both tractors can take a BH, both can lift with the FEL, both can mow the lawn. One is better suited for some tasks and the other is better suited for other tasks. I think both are absolutely excellent machines. I think the choice of one versus the other should largely be based on the long term tasks of the user rather than budget because both are 20 year investments so the price difference starts to fade away when spread over time. However what doesn't fade away is appropriate and efficient use. If I had small trees to mow up to, I'd pick the the B2910. If I had a mile long drive way that needed to be tended many times a year I'd pick the CK30.



Any tractor is a compromise. I think the best solution is to pick the machine that will "fit" the most long term tasks the best. Let me give you an analogy to hunting. Lets say you want to shoot a coyote or two, you'd pick a lightweight rocket like a 222 or 223, it shoots flat and with proper bullet selection you don't destroy the hide. But for deer hunting those cartriges are illegal in many states and realistically inadequate, so you jump up to a 30-30 and that works great. Then a black bear meanders onto your property so you pull out the 338 and he proptly is dispatched. And then your wife says YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE JUST ONE GUN for everything. What do you do? I'd suggest you compromise and pull out the trusty 308. Not the best choice for small game or large game but a reasonable compromise.

That is what I feel about tractors. Some folks NEVER mow their lawn with their CUT, other folks NEVER TAKE THE MOWER OFF their CUT. Pick the tractor that suits your LONG TERM tasks and that is the one you will be most happy with for the long time you are likely to own the tractor. Both the CK30 and the B2910 will mow the lawn, and both will fill your pick up bed full of heavy rock. If your weekly chores include a lot of hours of one task versus the other, then pick your machine accordingly. I think many people mis-pick their tractors and end up trading UP or DOWN in size 3 to 5 years after their initial purchase because they didn't look at the LONG TERM tasks.
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #17  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

Hello, Just in response that to somehow the information previously given about the 3 tractors specs was inaccurate or outdated... Go the the Kubota website for yourselves under their cometetive comparisons, The specs given were 100 percent accurate... Matt
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #18  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

Matt, I won't speak for Don's reply to your post, but I did agree with him. What I said is that I have seen inconsistent data on the comparison pages and that is why I pull the actual brochures and the spec pages for the specific tractors. Heck, I've even gone out and measured some of my own equipment. I don't think either Don or I were trying to argue, just to point out that sometimes even the manufacturers screw up their own data.
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #19  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

I think if you try out a CK30, you'll find that the platform operator's station is quite comfortable, and that all the controls are within easy reach. It's one of the easiest tractors to use that I've seen, and has plenty of power. Your wife, and you will enjoy the HST ease of operation as well. Of course the others offer the HST also. All of these tractors are very good, and you would probably be very happy with them.
DARGO: I find it interesting that you didn't mention that you had some pretty aggravating problems with yours. John
 
   / Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can't decide which one #20  
Re: Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, can\'t decide which one

KiotiJohn, "pretty aggravating" is being awfully kind. You are certainly correct. And, I believe you are aware that I am keeping an eye on the options available on the DK65 as it evolves. I cut loose pretty hard on a green tractor and a blue tractor I owned previously to this shade of orange as well that gave me fits.

What I wanted, and still do, is a hydro tractor with a good cab, A/C, strong loader etc. The Kioti lineup is just starting to move into more of the "creature comforts" that I want in a tractor. They just don't have what I want in the size I want. As I mentioned before, when (hopefully not "if") the 65 series is available with hydro and in 4 cyl, I'll be the first to run out for a test drive. The power stats on the 65 are awesome. The 4 cyl engine just feels smoother to me and I want hydro.

Also, sort of off of the subject slightly, Consumer Reports now is rating the Korean made vehicles with the Japanese made vehicles on quality and reliability. A few years ago they were comparing them to the Yugo. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I think the Korean made tractors are just a couple of years away on the creature comfort part as compared to their Japanese counterparts. But, I don't think they have their eyes closed. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

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